Driver styles/preferences

[raymondu999]

What timbo meant is, either:
a) he has a slow rack because his steering is aggressive
or
b) he has an aggressive steering because he has a slow rack.

aka, Chicken or Egg?

I'm not too sure I agree though - he didn't have too slow a rack in Renault, he was still mighty aggressive then.

[Nando]

He´s always had an aggressive driving style, it could be the Ferrari or the tires that require him to run more rack.

B) if that was the case he could change it and problem solved. The fact that it´s still there says he wants it to be like that.

[timbo]

What do you mean by backwards?

You make it look like slow steering rack is a mean to compensate for his agression, a sort of compromise. I look at it as a way for him to get what he wants. And same goes for every other driver's preference.

A smooth driver does not need lots of lock because their hands won´t be all over the place.
The problem is you will have a more sensitive car when turning so you need to be a sensitive driver in terms of turning the wheel.

Alonso IS smooth. His inputs may look agressive or abrupt, but he is smooth in terms of economy.

[raymondu999]

Here's the relevant video in terms of Hamilton. This is at a different point in the race to the previous two vids though - this is leading up to his collision.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65P9s0YnEb8[/youtube]

More onboard gold, this time for JB:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umzSyyJerwQ[/youtube]

[timbo]

Shows that Macca was a damn good car in that conditions and both drivers didn't have to press that hard. Interesting to note that Button regularly takes MUCH more kerb at turn 8 than Hamilton.

[Nando]

You make it look like slow steering rack is a mean to compensate for his agression, a sort of compromise.

Exactly.

Alonso IS smooth. His inputs may look agressive or abrupt, but he is smooth in terms of economy.

He isn´t smooth in inputs, this is negated by having a longer or "slower" stering ratio.

Bigger steering allows for much more aggressive inputs without upsetting the car balance like it would had he run a very small "fast" steering ratio.

Basically as a driver you don´t have to start catching the rear end all the time because you are to abrupt with the steering.

[Sevach]

I think Hamilton is a guy who is always very soft with the steering and most of his work is done on the pedals.

[timbo]

You make it look like slow steering rack is a mean to compensate for his agression, a sort of compromise.

Exactly.

And I don't think so. This is a product of his feel for the car, not a compromise.
I believe he prefers to dial precisely as much steering angle as tyres would handle, while Vettel would sort of seek the optimum. Look at onboards -- Vettel is a lot more fiddley with his steering, while Alonso usually have a lower input frequency.

[raymondu999]

I don't think the Renault steering aggressiveness is a good barometer to judge the current Alonso. Alonso certainly is one of the more interesting case studies in adaptability. If you look at his onboards from 2003, he's seemingly changed every year.

Taking a look at his onboards year on year, let's pay attention to the steering:

His steering entries at Renault through 2003-2006 were certainly massively aggressive: (this is from 05)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zWxHS6PMuk[/youtube]

But with the McLaren on Bridgestones, it was VERY dfferent:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES3uRsBiDOk[/youtube]

Then we had the 08 Renault on Bridgestones (remember they were on Michelin rubber in 03-06). In comparison to his first Renault stint, his two Renault comeback years were comparatively dainty.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmcPasRvg88[/youtube]

2009 Renault (different aero and slicks now)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2APYDPjNgYg[/youtube]

2010 Ferrari on the new understeery Bridgestone slicks - there's certainly an added "busy"ness to his steering movements as he takes multiple stabs into corners.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWYPpxIgXpI[/youtube]

2011 Ferrari on the first Pirelli year. He reverses his 2010 style as his entry sweeps are a lot calmer, but when he unwinds the steering, he takes multiple stabs.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bXElpqhI0I[/youtube]

2012 Ferrari this year. Things are a lot calmer with the wheel, a lot more "Jenson Button" like in the entry/exit sweeps.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyMZZKLRks[/youtube]

My point is - while Alonso was certainly aggressive on the wheel with his Renault, I'm not sure that it may necessarily be the case with his current year.

[Tommy Cookers]

Alonso has always favoured a setup more inclined towards understeer than some others favour ?
because such a setup allows earlier/more power application ?
not pretty to the opposite-lock fans, but its quicker over the race

'warning' the car is for weak-minded and weak-nerved people (I should know)
initial steering application should be quick

[Nando]

And I don't think so.

Then we´ll just have to agree to disagree then

My opinion is that Alonso is by nature, a very aggressive driver with inputs, what makes that more apparent or less apparent is the car and the tires.

[raymondu999]

Alonso has always favoured a setup more inclined towards understeer than some others favour ?
because such a setup allows earlier/more power application ?
not pretty to the opposite-lock fans, but its quicker over the race

'warning' the car is for weak-minded and weak-nerved people (I should know)
initial steering application should be quick

My opinion is that Alonso is by nature, a very aggressive driver with inputs, what makes that more apparent or less apparent is the car and the tires.

I don't think, as I've said above - that we can use the past as a sign of the now, for Fernando - he's one of the more adaptable drivers. His steering style alone changes almost on a year on year basis, as the videos I posted above.

[Nando]

warning' the car is for weak-minded and weak-nerved people (I should know)
initial steering application should be quick

Warning the car has also alot to do with confidence in the car. If you know it will always stick there´s not need to saw at the wheel.
If you are unsure you start sawing and start expecting the rear to come loose.

[Adrian Newby]

So, if I may redirect the thread to its initial purpose of comparing the various driving styles of today's grid, as opposed to arguing over vehicle dynamics...

Sorry about hijacking the thread. I have deleted my posts. I invite everyone to do the same (maybe the mods can help with that).

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Mod edit - No thank you! The forum would end up as gibberish if that happened. It was useful if slightly off topic conversation, now the conversation is back closer to the OP. That's normal discourse, all conversations meander.

[raymondu999]

More onboard gold
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqIQnuxK2ZM[/youtube]