Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

[MercAMGF1Fans]

2. Almost every team has an interlinked suspension. So it’s not the secret weapon Mercedes wants to make it look like.
.

That's true but only partially, as Mercedes are the only ones who have the front and back connected, fully, not just the rears seperate and the front seperate .. check scarbs

[ajdavison2]

Can you put a link up for that, i'd like to read about it

[mep]

2. Almost every team has an interlinked suspension. So it’s not the secret weapon Mercedes wants to make it look like.
.

That's true but only partially, as Mercedes are the only ones who have the front and back connected, fully, not just the rears seperate and the front seperate .. check scarbs

Yes, that is what I mean. A connection between front and rear.
A simple anti roll bar could already be called interlinked suspension (left to ride of either front or rear axle) but that is not what I am talking about. The only teams which might not have an interlinked suspension might be the small ones HRT, Catherham and Marussia but at least all top and midfield teams have it. The Mercedes one might be more complex but its not like the other teams are not doing that.

[MercAMGF1Fans]

Can you put a link up for that, i'd like to read about it

They had it only on the rear last year on the w02 which was working fine towards the latter half of the season.
http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/10/17/me ... uspension/

And Lauda explains it briefly here..
http://mercamgf1-fans.com/2012/10/31/ni ... 3s-issues/

and here's scarb's explaination on twitter
https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/263576120862052353

Mercedes have been running interconnected suspension since last year, it hydraulically links all four wheels together to control roll\heave
Many teams link to the front to rear, to prevent dive and squat, Merc also link left to right and diagonally
Its Mercedes with the system not Mac. LHs issue was a broken antiroll bar, proving they are not using fully linked suspension
@ScarbsF1 Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari also use so called "fric"-systems, which connect the suspensions of the four wheels hydraulically.
@tgruener Yes, but front axle to rear axle only, not for antiroll and warp control.
@MercAMGF1Fans @tgruener No they cant switch back, the B-spec carbon case was designed around the system
@MercAMGF1Fans It will provide some more low speed grip, but its main aim is to maximise aero. Without good aero its wasted.
@MercAMGF1Fans That said if its not working it will wreck Aero & Mech grip

[Nando]

So now we know why the tire issues are happening?

[MercAMGF1Fans]

So now we know why the tire issues are happening?

yup.. suspension was too complicated, and ended up wrecking the aero, compounded with not getting the coanda effect to work properly

[Mika1]

Yeah, they need to get rid of that suspension ASAP.

[marcush.]

maybe they should give Lauda the Technical directorship..
What a complete nonsense. Lauda has no issues distributing his views and opinions as facts .Nobody knows how "interlinked the competitors suspensions are -in fact they may even lag behind with their system ,who knows?
Getting rid of a control system may make your life easier in a ways but would it solve your issues? I have my doubts.The reason behind introducing such a system is having more control over the individual tyre loads at a given moment-trying to emulate active ride by means of a passive system.
Or would you say they found a pet project and ignore the fact they don´t understand it but carry on in spite of a set of penske dampers in the shelve ready to be bolted in and solving their issues instantly?

[timbo]

Well, it's interesting to look at the history of the team including Honda/BAR days. For some odd reason the team never managed to make steady improvements during the season or build up on a previous year break-thru.
In 2004 they had second best car to Ferrari. In 2005 -- not so much, probably hurt by the tyres. 2006 -- not so bad but nowhere as good as in 2004. 2007 -- zero progress compared to 2006. 2008 -- made a joke of themselves by being beaten by Super Aguri which developed their previous year chassis! 2009 -- dominated the first half of the season but then hit a cliff with updates not working, tyre understanding etc.
What's the deal? It seems like each year they manage to unlearn everything they gained. This puzzles me greatly.

[user001]

What's the deal? It seems like each year they manage to unlearn everything they gained. This puzzles me greatly.

i think it was alexander wurz who assumed maybe the team´s "knowledge is only in the heads of its team-members" and as they´ve been dismissed "the knowledge" disappears as well. funny fact, after three years this did not change as far as i presume

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... 11740.html

[MercAMGF1Fans]

maybe they should give Lauda the Technical directorship..
What a complete nonsense. Lauda has no issues distributing his views and opinions as facts .Nobody knows how "interlinked the competitors suspensions are -in fact they may even lag behind with their system ,who knows?
Getting rid of a control system may make your life easier in a ways but would it solve your issues? I have my doubts.The reason behind introducing such a system is having more control over the individual tyre loads at a given moment-trying to emulate active ride by means of a passive system.
Or would you say they found a pet project and ignore the fact they don´t understand it but carry on in spite of a set of penske dampers in the shelve ready to be bolted in and solving their issues instantly?

Lauda just highlighted the suspension problem.. and obviously he was quoted in the "bild.de" which should be taken with a pinch of salt. Not suggesting that Lauda knows how to fix it. Just revealing the news, And from what it looks like the team were trying to achieve what's being done in rallying, a sort of passive "active" suspension.. kudos for trying, but I guess also the tyres had a major adverse effect on the development of the system, as they were seeking more mechnical grip, they left aero to one side, got rid of Bigois and hired in Elliot to support Owen the cheif designer while upgrading the to the 60% model .

[marcush.]

keeping the cards to your chest is NORMAL practise in Motorsports the ethos of documentation and expert systems is not easy to implement .this is true for automotive industry as well ..and with tools like DOORS one can even understand the people who block any attempt to write down all the knowledge free for use for your collegues or the newbees.we see this protective state of mind even here in F1t with people who know a little bit -they think...

[MercAMGF1Fans]

http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorspor ... 96788.html

"Switching from 50% to 60% [model in the wind tunnel], which is absolutely what you have to do, costs you time [of roughly] six to eight weeks in the wind tunnel when you cannot continuously work," he added. "This did not help us either, but you have to do that now otherwise you will suffer next year." - Haug

[Nando]

maybe they should give Lauda the Technical directorship..
What a complete nonsense. Lauda has no issues distributing his views and opinions as facts .Nobody knows how "interlinked the competitors suspensions are -in fact they may even lag behind with their system ,who knows?
Getting rid of a control system may make your life easier in a ways but would it solve your issues? I have my doubts.The reason behind introducing such a system is having more control over the individual tyre loads at a given moment-trying to emulate active ride by means of a passive system.
Or would you say they found a pet project and ignore the fact they don´t understand it but carry on in spite of a set of penske dampers in the shelve ready to be bolted in and solving their issues instantly?

Lauda just highlighted the suspension problem.. and obviously he was quoted in the "bild.de" which should be taken with a pinch of salt. Not suggesting that Lauda knows how to fix it. Just revealing the news, And from what it looks like the team were trying to achieve what's being done in rallying, a sort of passive "active" suspension.. kudos for trying, but I guess also the tyres had a major adverse effect on the development of the system, as they were seeking more mechnical grip, they left aero to one side, got rid of Bigois and hired in Elliot to support Owen the cheif designer while upgrading the to the 60% model .

Perhaps they are running too much mechanical grip.
Car was amazing in Monaco which would point to a car with excellent mechanical grip.
Obviously settings are different from track to track but maybe they are running more mechanical grip then they need to.
Or perhaps they are forced to because they don´t have as much aerodynamic grip.
Not that mechanical grip would be equal to aero grip in the high speed stuff but perhaps they are trying to win back the losses in the slower corners.

[marcush.]

you cannot separate tyres from suspension as the suspension is clearly there to connect the tyres to the chassis in the best possible way to assure optimum grip under all circumstances.
Too good grip ? Not existing -save the problem you might have braking parts due to shockloads.
MGP had not one singular problem they had this rear tyre eating issue -possibly caused by a lack of rear downforce and they had a minor problem with their absolute performance ,the car was simply not quick enough as the season progressed.
As they did not find the solution for the rears ,they chopped off the front wings for balance and lost even more potential .
I wonder why they did not stick on a bigger wing at the rear instead sacrificing top speed ,yes ...but they were not shabby in top speed -so what?
Also they seemed to get eveything from the package more often than not -apart from hungary so I don´t think it is justified to call the package too complicated.
The most important thing speaking against too complicated is:MGP is quite competitive on Fridays on green tracks when everyone has grip issues -low grip situations.As the track rubbers in they seem to fade away .this tells me they lack general grip aero wise .