Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
The FOZ
The FOZ
0
Joined: 07 Feb 2008, 23:04
Location: Winterpeg, Canada

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

I'm basing this on the premise that all the Mercedes cars so far have been based upon the BGP001, which had monstrous rear downforce thanks to the DDD.

My gut says the W03 had excellent rear mechanical grip, as evidenced by the competitive times on green track surfaces, during practice sessions, and steadily decreasing pace during the race.

That said, the was an aerodynamic pig. It lacks aero downforce, and has too much drag.

The lack of aero downforce theory is supported by the rear tire eating problem - while other teams had good aero grip, which lessens tire wear, to try and keep up, the W03 had to rely on mechanical grip - and riding the edge between adhesion and slip is what I believe was eating the tires so badly.

Why do I say it had too much drag? I didn't see the legendary Mercedes power doing anything special at Monza, or Spa, or Montreal. Something was mitigating that power advantage. I think it was a combination of too much wing to try and increase downforce, and poor internal aerodynamics. Which, incidentally, is where I suspect one of Red Bull's true strengths lie - how easily air moves through the car, as supported by the large cooling outlets on their engine covers over the last few years.

Suspension behavior and tire wear is also very closely linked - smoother tire loading and unloading will preserve tires, whereas rapid load changes will lead to micro-slipping and faster degredation. That said, suspension designs must include the tire AS a suspension element unto itself - they are bouncy air springs that just happen to roll, let's remember. Worse, they're problematic because their spring rate varies with pressure, which has impact upon the rest of the suspension as well...

The team that figures out how to hold tire temperature within a few degrees consistently during long runs has a MUCH easier job doing everything else. I suspect we'll see a few more creative ways of using brake heat to maintain tire temperature next season. I liked McL's (?) heat reactive bimetallic brake shroud concept, but it was outlawed. There are a few more holes in the rules that I hope some teams will exploit for next year.

Nando
Nando
2
Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

edit: nevermind..
Last edited by Nando on 05 Dec 2012, 19:56, edited 1 time in total.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

user001
user001
-2
Joined: 29 Sep 2012, 15:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

The FOZ wrote: The team that figures out how to hold tire temperature within a few degrees consistently during long runs has a MUCH easier job doing everything else. I suspect we'll see a few more creative ways of using brake heat to maintain tire temperature next season. I liked McL's (?) heat reactive bimetallic brake shroud concept, but it was outlawed. There are a few more holes in the rules that I hope some teams will exploit for next year.
Also RedBulls innovative brake cooling ducts and so forth were outlawed. The greater the temperature the more a slit opened due to the bimetallic. sadly this was outlawed maybe due to safety reasons?

as i have to say a more stable reglementation is more exciting imho. teams got a tighter space upon they can find new things and not a radical change possible for all teams. the tighter regulation the more innovation has to go into detail....

Faustino
Faustino
2
Joined: 16 Feb 2012, 20:27

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

It's obvious the W03 was fundamentally flawed. The lack of any clear upgrade path only highlights that Ross Brawn essentially washed his hands of it after 3 races.

The problem is that there is little that can be taken forward to next season.

If 2014 will see all teams starting from scratch, 2013 will just be a shot in the dark.

As a fan, I would settle for something as competitive as Lotus were. That would be a huge achievement.

MercAMGF1Fans
MercAMGF1Fans
41
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 07:10
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

Although this is mean as a "Joke" there is some truth in this relating to the W04
Image
In BOTH his retirements he was replaced by a Mclaren driver, who went on to win the WDC the following year, AND more importantly Aldo Costa headed up the F2007 project as well as now, where he's heading up the w04 project!
Aldo's known for producing cars which are kind on their tyres. Also one more point. Schumi had a BIG influence on the F2007 during the development phases - rings any bells?

User avatar
Cam
45
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 08:38

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

LOL. although has nothing to do with the W04 - if that is indeed true, that's funny as f.....
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

wunderkind
wunderkind
5
Joined: 04 Apr 2007, 06:12

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

winth304 wrote:
wunderkind wrote:I think the W04 will be a W03 modified to cure the tyre wear problems and the lack of downforce in the rear.

If Mercedes tries to do anymore than that, they'd be biting off more than they could chew.

Lauda told us that a whole new car will be built...
Of course they'd be building a brand new car. I suspect most of their efforts would be directed to the two problems I mentioned.

MercAMGF1Fans
MercAMGF1Fans
41
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 07:10
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

Cam wrote:LOL. although has nothing to do with the W04 - if that is indeed true, that's funny as f.....
The point I was trying to make, is that Costa headed the F2007 project with MSC having a BIG input as he always does.. This year MSC kept talking about the "Development for next year" as well as Costa's heading the W04 project I know it's a bit silly, but I guess it's part of the "speculation"

User avatar
Vasconia
6
Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

MercAMGF1Fans wrote:
Cam wrote:LOL. although has nothing to do with the W04 - if that is indeed true, that's funny as f.....
The point I was trying to make, is that Costa headed the F2007 project with MSC having a BIG input as he always does.. This year MSC kept talking about the "Development for next year" as well as Costa's heading the W04 project I know it's a bit silly, but I guess it's part of the "speculation"
I dont expect such a thing, yes, Costa did a good job and Michael was a important part in the development of the new car, but basically the F2007 was fast because the F2006 was really fast at the end of the season, so the base was extremely good to develop a WC winner car.

KnightBernabeu
KnightBernabeu
0
Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 19:11

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

Although 2006 and 2012 had similar cases, the key difference between W04 and F2007 are their predecessors. F2007's development was much based upon F2006's, where next year W04 will be a fresh concept.

Mercedes's W03 is pretty much been struggling with their DDRS whole year long. Althought DDRS gave them an ahead start in earlier races' qualifying, what kills them was the tires' fast degradation. They tried the Conada exhaust in late season, but to this point I think they really didn't get the Conada exhaust.

DRD is certainly something they got a head start during 2012, but it seems they are certainly abandoning the concept, although it is still legal under the 2013 regulation.

The thing about Mercedes's development is that they need a clear direction, in 2012 the whole team's resource was poured onto DDRS, except a few minor sidepod revisions before the summer break and the Conada exhaust that doesn't quite work for them after the summer break

user001
user001
-2
Joined: 29 Sep 2012, 15:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

and i think their ddrs was much more sophisticated in terms of catching air into the system already at the frontwing. but FIA forbid this. maybe their ddrs concept would have been much better and easier to setup. maybe to dump it in 2013 is the right approach to ensure that they won't have the downforce balancing problems they had in 2012.

simply cut it off and concentrate on overall development would be easier. but maybe brawn and his engineers come up with a new giant idea that makes a bigger difference as brawn is a fan of that as he told in older interviews.

MercAMGF1Fans
MercAMGF1Fans
41
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 07:10
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

Car "launch" or roll-out confirmed for 1st day of testing at Jerez

Nando
Nando
2
Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

Source?
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

MercAMGF1Fans
MercAMGF1Fans
41
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 07:10
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post


Nando
Nando
2
Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04 (pre-launch speculation)

Post

Thanks, not that i don´t believe you but it´s always good to have a source to point to :)
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."