Driver styles/preferences

[Sevach]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMSuZ2r2 ... ature=plcp[/youtube]

[Sevach]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USXuPj9Z6k8[/youtube]

This is a nice comparison, one thing that caught my eye is that Vettel frequently using more track on the exit, sometimes going "past" the curbs.

Another important point is the second to last corner, Hamilton guides the car in, Vettel does an agressive flick that causes a bit of oversteer, corrects even before getting to the apex and picks up the throttle HARD.

[raymondu999]

Are you trying to highlight a certain element in particular Sevach? Or just posting the video?

[Sevach]

Well i highlighted the things i spotted didn't i?

[raymondu999]

Ah! You edited the post as I was posting... lol.

When I posted my post, your post only had the video

[raymondu999]

Worth noting that the audio is only from Vettel's car.

It's interesting I was paying particular attention to the entries as you brought up Vettel's entry to the penultimate corner. It seems to be something he does not only there, though it's certainly the most visible there. Vettel seems to do the "double take" on entry much more than Lewis.

Mark Hughes is one journalist who certainly constantly speaks this way of Vettel's driving - sliding the rear to get a quicker entry rotation, then slamming the throttle so that the gases squelch out any oversteer.

[Sevach]

Yeah sorry
But i believe the exit thing was suppoused to be there "from day one", the thing about the second to last corner was added 1 minute later true.

Yes i've heard that, it's the maximizing the blown diffuser technique.
If we are to believe the FIA graphics Vettel never fully let off the throttle in that corner, even as he was braking there was a lot of throttle on.

Another thing we discussed on different thread, this to me looks like a good example of shortening the corner, as both cars go through the apex it looks to me like Vettel has the nose pointed earlier and has a straighter run out of the corner, while Hamilton is still putting in more steering.

[raymondu999]

This is a video that some of you will undoubtedly have already seen before on this forum:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb1vr9shN7w[/youtube]

I was also listening to Motor Sport magazine's latest podcast, including a Q&A with Sir Jackie, and legendary mechanic Jo Ramirez. I've clipped out some interesting portions. Unfortunately it's audio only, so I uploaded them to SoundCloud instead.

Jackie Stewart on how to drive a car:
https://soundcloud.com/raymond-umbara/jys-on-driving

Jo Ramirez on the contrasting styles and car usage of (Alain) Prost vs (Keke) Rosberg
https://soundcloud.com/raymond-umbara/j ... vs-rosberg

[timbo]

It's interesting to ponder how this applies to modern cars. In the beginning of his talk JS noted how Schumacher's car is set up to allow him to turn in sharply. One thing was recently caught my attention was a comment of Alain Prost about a RedBull car he drove -- he said it is very stiff. Now that was VERY surprising to me as he driven that late-80's early-90's flat bottomed cars with paper thin ride, which shaken like mad on the bumps. How modern cars which a visibly a much smoother on tracks (even on Interlagos or Monaco) can feel stiffer? The only answer I can think of is that with modern suspension technology the decoupling between fast bump/rebound and slow bump/rebound is really good. So an engineers can set up car to absorb bumps very efficiently while being very stiff on roll and pitch. The monocoques are probably also much stiffer.
If that is indeed true modern cars can probably tolerate much more abrupt and fast steering and brake/throttle inputs than earlier cars.

[raymondu999]

I think personally that "smooth" is a relative term. A rate of turn-in that is still smooth for a McLaren would probably be aggressive for an HRT

[timbo]

I think personally that "smooth" is a relative term. A rate of turn-in that is still smooth for a McLaren would probably be aggressive for an HRT

Sure, but I guess even HRT can tolerate more than something like B192.

[raymondu999]

Yeah that's what I meant. Maybe today's drivers are all smooth, when taking into account their machinery. Some such as a Hulkenberg may be more aggressive than their peers, but relative to their car, it may still actually be considered smooth.

[Sevach]

I agree the type of machinery changes the parameters, so what is smooth today would be brutalizing the car in Jackie's day.

I remember seeing a Renault engineer telling Richard Hammond that he should be on the brakes straight away after lifting the throttle, the amout of gforce the current cars can take it without "power boating" changes how agressive your inputs can be.

[Lycoming]

That was because he had a half second gap between lifting off the throttle and getting on the brake pedal which is quite a lot of idle time.

[jamsbong]

One thing was recently caught my attention was a comment of Alain Prost about a RedBull car he drove -- he said it is very stiff.

Did he meant the ride being stiff or the chassis being stiff? Having a stiff chassis means you can turn more sharply even with soft suspension. Road cars like Zonda actually have a soft-like set up but turns in beautifully without aftermath reaction. The stiff chassis allows such behaviour.

Regarding driving style:
I remember Martin Brundle always say the tail happy style is the fastest but requires more concentration and confidence with the car.

Even a driver prefers a sharp pointy car, he does not want a badly loose tail. Just the front is slightly stickier than the rear. Vettel choose that aggressive corner out to maximise the blown exhaust. Webber can't get his head around such style. So like Button, he also end up depending on car set up to make the car suit the track so that the car drives itself fast.

Remember back in 2010 and 2011, Vettel only had one lap on quali to save the engine usage, he made it count. Also in Abu Dhabi 2012, he was driving a car with completely new set up for the race and he end up standing next to Alonso after starting from Last place twice on a dry track.

Of course, he still needs to set up the car to ensure he has the chance to challenge others. But my point is that the car set up does not have to be pin-point accurate to the track, temperature, etcs.

So why is Alonso so impressive this year driving a slow car? His car is actually competitive in race trim and has one of the strongest starting capability. I think Ferrari must have learnt a secret or two about starting the car with Pirelli tires. he is fast enough during the race. But most importantly, Alonso barely made any significant mistake. Ferrari and Alonso has been absolutely immaculate in terms of reliability and being error-free. That got him just 3 points off Vettel in the end.
It is similar to Kimi vs Alonso in 2005, the mistakes and horrible reliability cost Kimi. Kimi always have the speed, but Alonso could bring it home every day.