A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

[raymondu999]

I would not want my hands on the steering wheel when involved n a collision

Whiplash in 3 axes at once?

[FrukostScones]

what about F1 car with pilot and (suspension) navigator. aka the real doubleseater.

[Greg Locock]

He would have to be an absolute genius to make up for the weight penalty.

[PlatinumZealot]

You seem to be muddling 2 things

1) what is the best way for the driver to operate additional controls while driving with both hands on the wheel, and you are proposing some sort of joystick functionality in the rim of the wheel.


2) what would you control mid corner? you are proposing stifffening the suspension up one side or the other (a bizarre choice in my view, but what the hell)

I'd unmuddle those two before discussing further

1. A twist function like a motorcycle in the rim of the wheel. This is just for arguments sake though it could be a different method, but it has to be 100% analog with positive feed back.

2. The driver is controlling the suspension stiffness of the corners of the car. The system only responds directly to the drivers hands. The system cannot be toggled or preset.

The idea is to have a manually controlled suspension system. The base setup of the suspension can remain unchanged but the suspension response can be enchanced from direct input from the driver just as he controls the steering and brakes.

[Lycoming]

You still havn't answered the important question: why would you want to change suspension stiffness mid corner? What benefit does it give you? How will it make you go faster round a lap?

This is the first question that must be answered. After that we can talk about he best way to implement the control, how to change spring rate on the fly, etc.

[PlatinumZealot]

I would not want my hands on the steering wheel when involved n a collision

Whiplash in 3 axes at once?

Well the handles would be quite stiff so they would not protrude that much.

Am I the only one that thinks this system would increase safety. Even if it fails you are back to the standard suspension response.

The cornering abilities of the Williams Fw13b would be now accessible to any driver who is skilled enough!

[PlatinumZealot]

You still havn't answered the important question: why would you want to change suspension stiffness mid corner? What benefit does it give you? How will it make you go faster round a lap?

This is the first question that must be answered. After that we can talk about he best way to implement the control, how to change spring rate on the fly, etc.

The same reason why the Nissan GTR does it and the same reason why the fw 13b did it.

[Cam]

@n smikle - I like the idea. Having the driver have more direct control over the car is a good thing. I assume you're saying the driver can trim and tune the car via direct controls? Not sure exactly how it would work or to what degree and what aspects of the car you could change - but the concept is sound and certainly fits with the thinking that F1 pushes motorsport.

Don't be put off by the haters simply looking at the negative aspects. Unfortunately most people cannot come up with original thoughts and ideas. It'll be nice to see you flesh it out and show 'realistically' what could be done within the regulations. That might open a few eyes and minds.

Good work.

[bill shoe]

A driver with control over suspension settings could, yes, do more harm than good. Strictly speaking a computer chip could drive faster and with less possibility of accident, so the existence of the driver at all does more harm than good. However, we're interested in some kind of driving contest that involves skill. So make it hard. Give the driver the opportunity to make it better or the chance to screw up.

How about vectoring torque, during both acceleration and braking? It would be hard to get right, but that's the point. A subtle amount could rotate an unbalanced car nicely.

[Lycoming]

and what are those reasons?

williams' active suspension was designed to keep the car perfectly oriented for the sake of optimal aerodynamic performance. I think its a bit too much to ask of a human to turn a corner AND keep the car at the perfect attitude at the same time.

Are you sure the GTR changes spring stiffness? All I see is a monotube shock and a coil spring. The shock stiffness can be modified, which allows stiffer settings in race mode to allow faster load transfer, but soft ride in comfort mode. Not applicable in F1, they have no need for a comfort mode. Sounds pretty twitchy to be adjusting that mid corner.

@Cam - Just because an idea is new, original or outside the box, does not alone make it good. I'm not so much put off by the disadvantages as I am unable to see any advantage.

[Cam]

The idea is good IMO and more ideas like this are needed to ensure drivers don't become ballast (not literally). The driver already has % control over throttle, brake and steering. I see no reason not to expand that. The cotrols and effects could be subtle where someone who can master this extra facet in the sport can get an advantage. It's all too easy to dismiss ideas, which is what's happening in here. I'd rather see proactive driver focussed ideas than gimmicks as such that remove the driver skill. The WDC should be earned by the driver, not gifted by the car.

[Jersey Tom]

Don't be put off by the haters simply looking at the negative aspects.

Some might call it that. Others might call it being a realist.

[PlatinumZealot]

and what are those reasons?

williams' active suspension was designed to keep the car perfectly oriented for the sake of optimal aerodynamic performance. I think its a bit too much to ask of a human to turn a corner AND keep the car at the perfect attitude at the same time.

Are you sure the GTR changes spring stiffness? All I see is a monotube shock and a coil spring. The shock stiffness can be modified, which allows stiffer settings in race mode to allow faster load transfer, but soft ride in comfort mode. Not applicable in F1, they have no need for a comfort mode. Sounds pretty twitchy to be adjusting that mid corner.

@Cam - Just because an idea is new, original or outside the box, does not alone make it good. I'm not so much put off by the disadvantages as I am unable to see any advantage.

I have not went into details of what will be adjusted whether spring stiffness/roll bar stiffness/damping/ride height/implementing actuators because this topic was just a thought that came up. I have not done any fleshing out of the idea yet.

What disadvantage is there to the driver trimming/tuning the suspension in real time? If he thinks it's unsafe he could leave it alone, but it is to his loss.

[Cam]

Don't be put off by the haters simply looking at the negative aspects.

Some might call it that. Others might call it being a realist.

Some also may say you just proved my point.

A 'realist' is a person too scared or too dumb to admit that everything is possible. Just because it doesn't sit comfortably in your world of thought, does not mean it's not possible. Sure, you can list 100 reasons why it would not be used by the FIA today, but then people retire, rules change, society changes and all of a sudden what was banned is now legal, what was not 'realistic' is now possible.

[bill shoe]

Can I take a half-step back? I have no doubt that the top F1 drivers are great drivers. But their challenge is too straightforward and they execute their tasks too consistently to really show their stuff.

A great baseball player might have success in 30% or 40% of his at-bats. A great quarterback makes maybe 70% of his passes over a season. A great football/soccer player may play for hours at a time without scoring. The great players in these sports are intrinsically good, but the extreme difficulty of what they attempt makes the situation great.

Then we have Hamilton, Vettel, etc. who can reel off 70 laps without a flaw. If they have a brief "off" this minor imperfection is extremely noteworthy, but it rarely happens. If they can regularly reel off 70 great laps then something about the situation is too easy. It lacks struggle.

I think concepts like 3D driving are a useful way to give them struggle. Make them really work to even get to the end of the damn race much less win it. The winner should more frequently be the guy who really wanted it more, took risks, and did something great rather than the driver who put in a clean pole lap, got a good start, and managed the tires well.