Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

[FoxHound]

They still have to have a solid car to build on.

Exactly.

No fancy blade wing, no SWB, no ddrs which hinders the overall package due to its implemntation.
Just a good clean honest design with minimal flair.
If they turn up to the tests with a fussy machine that's mediocre, it will be a long season.

[Joie de vivre]

They should focus on cornering speed -> downforce, rather than straight line top speed -> ddrs.

[Neno]

They should focus on cornering speed -> downforce, rather than straight line top speed -> ddrs.

cornering speed never existed in mercedes team, they always focus on their straight line speed, i dont know is it because they dont have enough knowledge for extracting car performances or it's because of their car philosophy, engine or something else making only good straightline speed car.

[ringo]

Aldo Costa is the remedy.

[FoxHound]

or it's because of their car philosophy, engine or something else making only good straightline speed car.

I think It was a Bigois philosophy after the W01. Stung by criticism of the W01 being slow in a straight line using the Benz 8, he may have changed tack. Plausible.
Foregoing that, he was still found wanting as a head of aero. His axing was timely, if not, overdue.

[gato azul]

If we apply this logic to Mercedes they would have to sack key individuals almost annually. And this will never work. In the comparison's I made with Red Bull this was this stand out fact.
When things went tough or backward...no one at the top was fired.

Blame culture
It is a set of attitudes, within a business or organization, characterized by an unwillingness to take risks or accept responsibility for mistakes because of a fear of criticism or prosecution.

If you think this is the way Mercedes should move forward then our conversation is over effective immediately.

No I don´t think that this should be the case, but it seems that you are quite happy with some fireings.
It's funny, considering the rest of your post.

Foregoing that, he was still found wanting as a head of aero. His axing was timely, if not, overdue.

And their is a difference between a blame culture and a culture in which individuals are held responsible for their actions & desicions.
And I never said, that Bell or Haug or whoever are incompetend, but even competent and smart people make wrong descions from time to time, happens almost daily in all walks of life.

[Cam]

their is a difference between a blame culture and a culture in which individuals are held responsible for their actions & desicions.

+1

[FoxHound]

@Gato

Nice fan club you got going there. Seems your non technical post, that informs no one of anything is worthy of an upvote. Bravo to you blue cat. =D>

Anyway, are you levelling some misguided accusation of hypocrisy at me?

If we apply this logic to Mercedes they would have to sack key individuals almost annually.

Is what I wrote.

Mercedes gave Bigois time. If you think they did not, and if you feel they should have given him more time then that is your entitlement.
They did not sack key staff annually, despite below par performances.

but even competent and smart people make wrong descions from time to time, happens almost daily in all walks of life.

Does it happen daily for 3 years in a row, with a poor in-season update record that even lesser teams like FI and Sauber can show progress, but Mercedes can not?
Are you suggesting they handed Bigois a contract for life, in a motion of blind faith?

You know exactly what I meant when I posted the "blame culture" not being the way forward. No one knows what went on behind closed doors at Brackley, what we all know is that 3 designs came out of Brackley with Bigois' name on it, that missed targeted results. His demotion has nothing to do with blame and everything to do with progress.

[Cam]

The point he made was relevant and was clearly defined. Hardly a fan club, gato and I, although on that post he makes clear common sense and a distinction some here fail to consider, hence the +1.

The Merc threads degrade into a pit of bias, slander and mis-information. Seeing someone post good content, for a change, deserves a thumbs up. That's the point of it. Isn't it?

[FoxHound]

Why misquote me, and misunderstand my posts intentions?
For 3 years I have defended the team, and it's staff. Time ran out for some of them, this is natural. You can only have faith in underperforming staff for so long.

Now to move the thread onwards and upwards, lets practice some of this please?

Try to add value in everything you do. Create, invent and learn

[gato azul]

@Gato

Nice fan club you got going there. Seems your non technical post, that informs no one of anything is worthy of an upvote. Bravo to you blue cat. =D>

Anyway, are you levelling some misguided accusation of hypocrisy at me?
.........

downvote my post, if you feel it deserves it, or make a complain to the mods. I'm happy if they take away all the votes, that's not any concern to me.

You are the one, who likes to make assumptions about what others may think, mean or wanted to say, and you do so on a constant basis, that's one of the things I wanted to point out.
Then you make constant references and comparisons to other teams in an attempt to justify MGP's performance and explain away the reasons for their current showings, why is that? (and funny enough you post the definition of blame culture).

You make comparisons to RBR and saying, they didn't fire people or restructured their technical departments when things din't go to plan. Well in the meantime, I seem to remember that in 2009 Willis left or had to leave the team.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/07/g ... -red-bull/
How, does this correlate to your statement about RBR? Did you twist the truth a bit to make your point?

After accusing me to label Bell and incompetent individual, because I ask, if he should assume responsible for the 2012 car, which he oversaw as TD, before being assigned a new role in mid 2012, according to you and a reference you provided, are you now saying that Bigois is a incompetent individual?
I don't thing any of that, and you missing the whole point by a country mile. Someone gave Bigois the job in the first place, and someone supported him/kept him in the job for 3 years. If he now leaves or was shown the door, what does this say about the other guy?
This is not about individuals (competent or otherwise) it's about a structure,it's a management issue first and foremost.
Does MGP has a performance orientated culture, were people are held responsible for their actions and decisions or not, is the question to what it boils down to, at least for me.
Unless, this is addresses, people will/can come and go, and not much will change.
You know the old saying "A champion team will beat a team of champions - more often then not".
Having a collection of high profile competent individuals does not equal a good team necessarily - there is a chance that it develops into one, but that is a process which needs to be actively managed, it does not happen automatically.

Under this premiss, let's look at some of the circumstantial evidence you like to use as explanation (or excuse) for their performance.
Yes, they had issues with their windt tunnel but were they foreseeable and anticipated or did that thing just burn to the ground mid season? If the later would have happened, then that's a valid argument/excuse-IMO. But that's not the case,
it's something the actively decided upon, after they lost touch with the leaders. They know full well, that Pirelli's 60% wind tunnel tyres are better then their 50% ones. They could have made the switch at a different time, if they have chose to do so. It's something they brought onto themselves. And even with that happen, you can look at Ferrari, who had issues to, but despite being faced with a similar situation, made a different decision, and came close to win the WDC nonetheless.
It's not what happen to you, it's what you make out of the situation that matters. You have little influence about the former, but all about the later.

Bigios departure may open the way for a better future, but we will have to wait and see, it was not only aero, who let them lose many points, especially in the first part of the season. There is a raft of other issues that should be looked at, and need to be resolved. So I would not single out Bigios as "the evil".
If MGP is on top of there operational side, as some seems to suggest, why have they made a step backwards in pitstop performance in 2012 ( or didn't improve at the same rate as others have)?
That has nothing to do with aero or wind tunnel calibration, therefore Bigois departure will do little to address these issues.

Look Foxhound, you may single me out as an hater or whatever, but I don't thing I am. I just don't like it, when people try to sell me a X for an U, and find fault with anyone and his dog, for explaining her own (her owns favorite teams) performance.
I admire and respect any fan of MGP, RBR ,McLaren , Ferrari or whichever team just as much.
But I would have a lot more respect, if someone step up, and say "yes we under performed massively compared to our own expectations, we have no one but ourselves to blame for it. But I'm still a fan of this team/brand and I will keep my faith and confidence in their ability to come out on top at the end". Then these constant picking at others, and trying to belittle others performances, just to make ones own heroes look a little bit better or less bad.

MGP has all the chance, to get on top of their issues, other have in the past other will do so in the future, but it want happen unless they take a good hard look at them self, accept reality for what it is, and making the right decisions at the right time.

I will leave now, not wanting to be more of a nuisance to you and other like minded MGP fans, enjoy the thread/forum - I wish you well, let's see what the future holds, but it would be nice if one could have a rational debate, discussion on here over about any topic.

[dren]

The Mercedes cars went in a different design direction than the rest of the field convergence. They were in need of a change. Perhaps Brawn put too much trust in his technical staff. By dumping Bigois it shows Merc are ready for a new aero direction. Much the same reason Ferrari dumped Aldo. At least Aldo designed some good, sound cars.

[gato azul]

Why misquote me, and misunderstand my posts intentions?
For 3 years I have defended the team, and it's staff. Time ran out for some of them, this is natural. You can only have faith in underperforming staff for so long.

Now to move the thread onwards and upwards, lets practice some of this please?

Try to add value in everything you do. Create, invent and learn

Just for the record. I did not misquoted you !!! (You said what I quoted, if you like it or not)
I may have misunderstood you, that's a real possibility, because you seem to try to say/prove different things at different times.

Nice of you to try and claim the moral high ground now, you could have done a lot of what you preach now yourself, by not attacking Cam in the first place. It's not that difficult after all.
But you will have to accept that other have a different opinion about MGP and their current & past performances.

[dren]

Aldo Costa is the remedy.

I agree. I have high expectations for him designing a fundamentaly sound car.

[ringo]

When do we see some insider pictures of the drivers and team members?
Wont we see or hear anything till launch time?