Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

[GrizzleBoy]

Or not have it at all, like Ferrari for example.

Comparing an F1 car to a Ferrari tank is never fair.

[Morteza]

Or not have it at all, like Ferrari for example.

Ferrari's reliability record is simply staggering. They are just amazing. I hope Mercedes can get to that level some day.

[Richard]

errr... who was Massa driving for when his car caught fire in winter testing?

[Morteza]

errr... who was Massa driving for when his car caught fire in winter testing?

I meant it in general. Renault alternator and McLaren reliability have not been that stellar

[diego1960]

Or not have it at all, like Ferrari for example.

Ferrari's reliability record is simply staggering. They are just amazing. I hope Mercedes can get to that level some day.

True. But perfection is an obligation for Mercedes. Actually, they must constantly push for higher quality in every part of their car through quality control etc. Problem is that they can't even think of simple things, like releasing a vanilla car with black heat-resistant material around the exhaust like everyone else. Especially after their paint gets burned year in year out.

richard, I don't remember that. Was it in 2012?

[FoxHound]

@ Diego

That's the problem. Mercedes of 30 years ago is not the same of today, even less the F1 team.
However, they are showing vast appetite to get it right, vast! They aren't throwing 500 million a year into their team but they are making decisions with heads lying on the floor as testament.

It's taken too long, we can all agree. But as some have said, Rome was not built in a day. Apologies for the stereotypical sounbite.

My take on this is that Mercedes have ditched silver bullets and are taking the long road to in season development progress. With their staff aquisiions, one can only hope as their are no certainties. If they qualify 9th and 10 th in oz, don't be surprised. Equally, if they qualify 3rd and 4th in brazil, then their goals will have been met.

In season progress is what Mercedes needs. If they get it, 2014 could be special. I think Hamilton knows that.

[Hail22]

Or not have it at all, like Ferrari for example.

Ferrari's reliability record is simply staggering. They are just amazing. I hope Mercedes can get to that level some day.

richard, I don't remember that. Was it in 2012?

It was the Ferrari F150 in 2011 when the engine went "Flame on" to Massa.

I don't really think there is anything to read into the first test...its purely about correlation between the WT and car initially and the second, third tests will prove more of a "show off your toys test".

I wonder if Brembo has arrived in Jerez to investigate the brake lines to make sure its not a design fault (whether it be Brembo/Mercedes Design fault or failure remains to be seen).

[fritticaldi]

I think Mercedes should concentrate on DTM. They have been dismal since they bought Brawn GP.

[user001]

I think Mercedes should concentrate on DTM. They have been dismal since they bought Brawn GP.

also BMW tried very hard to be a top team. result is known...

[raymondu999]

I wonder if such modern manufacturers with no recent history of F1 success are approaching things the wrong way.

In a crude generalisation, in a big organisation there will be at least some form of bureaucracy, however slight. Looking at the last few exits of big manufacturers - BMW from Sauber, Jaguar from Milton Keynes, Renault from Enstone etc - it seems to me that generally speaking, the exit has created a far more nimble, agile team. Perhaps there is too much bureaucracy in the way big corporations operate F1 teams? Ferrari are obviously the odd one out here, but we have to remember that Enzo started the race team, then the car company to fund his racing.

IMO we have seen 2 days of Merc tests wasted - but IMO we cannot immediately castigate the team. They're still finding their feet with this new car. IMO they should've run a 2013-legal W03 and should have basically thrown everything out the window, to start back from the basics. In a way, what Ferrari is doing to their CFD and WT kits, Mercedes need to do with the team. It's like putting your computer through a reformat and reinstall - out with all the trash, then keep learning.

Lewis says the team is hungry and keep on pushing - but pushing in the wrong direction will only get you further and further away from your goals.

Disclaimer - I was making a general comment about the teams with manufacturer backing, not Mercedes' on-track failures in the last two days.

[wunderkind]

I wonder if such modern manufacturers with no recent history of F1 success are approaching things the wrong way.

In a crude generalisation, in a big organisation there will be at least some form of bureaucracy, however slight. Looking at the last few exits of big manufacturers - BMW from Sauber, Jaguar from Milton Keynes, Renault from Enstone etc - it seems to me that generally speaking, the exit has created a far more nimble, agile team. Perhaps there is too much bureaucracy in the way big corporations operate F1 teams? Ferrari are obviously the odd one out here, but we have to remember that Enzo started the race team, then the car company to fund his racing.

IMO we have seen 2 days of Merc tests wasted - but IMO we cannot immediately castigate the team. They're still finding their feet with this new car. IMO they should've run a 2013-legal W03 and should have basically thrown everything out the window, to start back from the basics. In a way, what Ferrari is doing to their CFD and WT kits, Mercedes need to do with the team. It's like putting your computer through a reformat and reinstall - out with all the trash, then keep learning.

Lewis says the team is hungry and keep on pushing - but pushing in the wrong direction will only get you further and further away from your goals.

The events of the last two days have nothing to do with Stuttgart. It is at the operational level at Brackley, plain and simple. I seriously doubt Stuttgart has any input in the running of the team. As Ross Brawn has said recently, he is responsible for the all the technical, sporting, and racing matters of the team. Brawn is responsible for the general organisation of the team and Bob Bell is responsible for the organisation of the technical hierarchy. There is just not a whole lot of input from Stuttgart and frankly they can contribute very little to the team at the operational level.

Looking at it another way, Stuttgart installed their man Ola Kallenius to run Mercedes Benz High Performance Engines and he, with Andy Cowell (ex Cosworth I think, now Head of MBHPE), Axel Wendorff, and Thomas Fuhr turned it around and have consistently made the best engine in F1 in the last few years. So Stuttgart's involvement can be positive.

[raymondu999]

The events of the last two days have nothing to do with Stuttgart.

Nor did I say they did. I was making a general comment about the teams with manufacturer backing, not Mercedes' on-track failures in the last two days.

[beelsebob]

Holy crap, 20 laps in one day!

[Maelstrom]

23 now... they have nearly passed two days of testing. Wha6t work ethic.

[Lurk]

I wonder if such modern manufacturers with no recent history of F1 success are approaching things the wrong way.

In a crude generalisation, in a big organisation there will be at least some form of bureaucracy, however slight. Looking at the last few exits of big manufacturers - BMW from Sauber, Jaguar from Milton Keynes, Renault from Enstone etc - it seems to me that generally speaking, the exit has created a far more nimble, agile team. Perhaps there is too much bureaucracy in the way big corporations operate F1 teams?

Except Renault won 4 titles (2 WCC and 2 WDC) and BMW (as full team) only were in F1 during 4 years. Renault took 5 years to win the championship (with a slightly disapointing 4th year), and RBR took 6 years to win, 5 to fight, with a disapointing 4th year too...

Jaguar was a failure because thought they can won in 1 year and fired everebody each season during their 5 years in F1.

BMW approach was excellent IMHO (on the contrary of the Toyota or the Mercedes one's) but truth is: when the financial crisis hit, BMW and Renault wouldn't pay anymore for F1 and used the 1st disapoinment as a pretext to pull out (Renault have been tied a little more than wanted because of a spy affair then the crash gate). I'm pretty sure BMW could have won some titles or at least fought for it if they had continue.