Blanchimont wrote:If you read through §15.4.3 and look at the picture above, you'll notice the nose limited between 135mm and 235mm in height at a point 50mm behind its forward-most point. Thats because when no part of this section may be more than 50mm below the COA, then also no part is allowed to be more than 50mm above (when i assume the cross section is a rectangle).
I think with some trickery you can have some area above 235mm. There is nothing in the rules the requires a rectangular.
Reading the 2013 Technical regs i noticed they removed the DRS use conditions and put them into Sporting regs (it was in Technical regs for this year) so we'll have to wait for 2014 sport regs to see if use is changed...
Ogami musashi wrote:Reading the 2013 Technical regs i noticed they removed the DRS use conditions and put them into Sporting regs (it was in Technical regs for this year) so we'll have to wait for 2014 sport regs to see if use is changed...
I cannot find anything in the sporting regs.
The idea behind this move is that the FIA can change the sporting regulations without asking the teams. It was the same with the grooved tires. The depth and number was given in the sporting regs.
matt21 wrote:The idea behind this move is that the FIA can change the sporting regulations without asking the teams.
This is not true. The FiA cannot make unilateral changes to the sporting regulations without the F1 commission where the teams are represented. Any changes are also discussed in the sporting working group with participation of the teams. The only exception to this rule is a change that is done for safety reasons. When safety is invoked the FiA WMSC can change both the technical and the sporting regulations without prior involvement of the F1 commission or any working group. Hence a shift of the DRS rule to the sporting regulations must be motivated by other considerations.
Changing sporting regulations do not require a lengthy notice period if the change is supported by enough members of the F1 commission. That may be a reason for such a shift. Technical regulation changes require one year or more notice period according to past concord agreements.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
ringo wrote:Interesting. We are maybe looking at something like the early 90s, but more exaggerated.
The lack of the beam wing will make the cars look very clean.
Excuse my enthousiasm but what do you mean with the above?
Here is an early 90's car. Are you saying we are going to see something approaching this? Exceeding it?
I think he means a early 90s car but done by todays aero standards etc so it would look alot different. Imagine if they had had the tech we have today back then and then add 10% and you will prob get 2014 cars
Ogami musashi wrote:3.10.1 stipulates the shallower rear wing as well as banning of beam wing.
But there's a potential big change from the previous draft:
Furthermore, the distance between adjacent sections at any longitudinal vertical plane must
lie between 10mm and 15mm at their closest position, except, in accordance with Article 3.18,
when this distance must lie between 10mm and 65mm.
Instead of 65mm the previous draft was like 2012 at 50mm. This means that the lower RW element is now flatter and the upper RW element (the one that is DRSable) has now a larger chord to make most of the downforce....And coincidently the rule of using the DRS only when allowed have disappeared! It may mean that the DRS will be now use free not on/off anymore.
The use of drs is a sporting regulation, not a technical one. You have to look at the corresponding pdf for that one.
So to get things straight: all the bodywork changes that were previously announced for the 2014 season, excluding the ones that were vaguely outlined, are still going through? If that happens and nothing is going to be added to compensate the df loss, I'll quit watching. Cars generally are going to be much slower and I cant find any good reason why so. Lower noses: ok fine, that is a safety issue, but wanting to make the cars that much slower is just idiocity. Whats next: usain bolt faster then a f1 car?
I have to agree with you, when I initially read that the aero regulations are reverting back to 2012 I was relieved. But now after looking at it in more detail, the 2014 cars are still going to be massively restricted and Benson seems to be on the money with his article.
It looks like 2014 Formula One cars will be more like GP1.5 rather than Formula One. It's a shame as the power train technology looks really interesting but they've killed it with the weight increases and massively neutering the aerodynamics.
Huntresa wrote:Dont think fia can ever neuter aero, teams will always find loopholes and be several steps ahead of the fia
Nope; you think finding loopholes comes from an endless well, the truth is FIA already closed the big ones, sended out TD's for smaller ones (Red Bull got hit by that alot last year) and teams aren't able to find anything anymore that gives huge gains.
Have to dissapoint you: if these rules get through, we will see VERY little aero development anymore. It actually is already bad, with teams being very close to the limits of what is currently achievable within the set frame.
Huntresa wrote:Dont think fia can ever neuter aero, teams will always find loopholes and be several steps ahead of the fia
Nope; you think finding loopholes comes from an endless well, the truth is FIA already closed the big ones, sended out TD's for smaller ones (Red Bull got hit by that alot last year) and teams aren't able to find anything anymore that gives huge gains.
Have to dissapoint you: if these rules get through, we will see VERY little aero development anymore. It actually is already bad, with teams being very close to the limits of what is currently achievable within the set frame.
I think we have to agree to disagree atleast on the loophole finding but yes i can agree teams are getting ever so closer to having almost the same cars atleast within the same budget pools which atleast gives good racing at the front.
I'm very worried about one aspect for the next season. Help me to calm down.
I read a lot of articles about how favoured will be next year Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull (close with Renault).
They said that Mclaren will be hugely disavantaged because they will be late with integrating the engine in chassis. But if Mclaren has a close relationship with Mercedes doesn't that mean that Mercedes will give them in time all the information about the new engine for designing the car around the new engine? I don't want to believe that Mercedes will hurt us. On the car page people who do not know says that the aero-rules were not dropped, and does not believe that FIA dropped all the aero-rules for 2014. I repeat: FIA posted on thei official website in December 2012 that the aero-rules were dropped, and that it's only for integrating the engine in the chassis.
Look:
" FIA drops plan to reduce downforce in 2014. F1 cars will retain their 2012-style aerodynamic packages, the FIA confirmed: “Changes made to bodywork design, originally aimed at reducing downforce and drag for increased efficiency, have reverted to 2012 specification.”
The FIA has also amended the proposed rules for the new V6 turbo engines with energy recovery systems “with the aim of limiting technology in some areas in order to reduce development costs”.
A plan to make F1 cars run on electric power only when in the pits has been postponed from 2014 to 2017."
I think that it is pretty obvious and those who says that it is not like this, either don't know or are they wrong.
So in the new context Mclaren is places perfectly. If you don't belive me look at some reactions:
"
“Changes made to bodywork design, originally aimed at reducing downforce and drag for increased efficiency, have reverted to 2012 specification.”
- surely that’s bad news for the teams that are gambling on radical bodywork changes to bring them a chance to catch up (Merc in particular)."
"
I wonder, what Hamilton is thinking now.
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Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 5th December 2012, 22:30
@osvaldas31 – Probably something along the lines of “the regulations haven’t changed much for 2013, and now they won’t be changing for 2014, so now Mercedes have two years to build a better car than the W03 without having to worry about rule changes disrupting things”.
"I believe Mercedes were betting on integrating the rule changes with the new engine package from a much earlier stage than Newey or anyone else, hence getting a large step ahead. That is not going to happen when it is only a matter of integrating the new drive train to the existing package."
The head of the Mercedes-Benz engine division in Brixworth, said that it will not be differencies between Mercedes AMG F1 and Mclaren/Force India eith the engine.
