Red Bull RB9 Renault

[CjC]

Ha the other teams will be hot on the case to get the mapping banned, as it involves the 2 fastest looking teams at present

[Neno]

Ha the other teams will be hot on the case to get the mapping banned, as it involves the 2 fastest looking teams at present

well it's not this wasn't expected. if you cant speed up, you can always try make your competition slower. This is first rule of F1. but i am sure this will not affect too much two fastest teams in moment.

[atanatizante]

Looking at one of the above pictures something has occurred to me (I may be a little behind, apologies if I am!).

Does the exhaust ramp set-up as present on the Red Bull spread the exhaust flow to a wider area of the diffuser? Surely the flow will hit the floor ahead of the wheels and flatten out feeding more of the width. I thought of it like this; if you shoot a hosepipe at something through the air the flow is strong but formed in a narrow tube, if you shoot it at the floor however the same amount of water is coming out of the hose but the area it covers is far greater (albeit at a lower pressure). Could this be a feature of the RB9 (& RB8 I guess) where almost all of the diffuser if being fed by the exhaust rather than just the edges like the coanda systems run by most of the other teams?

Sorry mods, because somebody talk about this matter, I`m gonna re post here coz nobody answered my questions back on the designated thread : http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 62#p413862

Some questions (sorry for the poor aerodynamics knowledge):

1. Which is the better exhaust plume shape?
a) Fan-shaped expansion of the exhaust gases (Red Bull solution):
The flow will hit the floor and flatten out feeding more of the diffuser on its width.
This solution has two (maybe three) advantages and three disadvantages:
- Advantages:
1) It`s less vulnerable to yaw effects or speed dependent variation of vortices and flow around the side pods and towards the diffuser edges, hence could be working over a wider range of speed and turns
2) There will probably be less rotation of the exhaust stream with or without vortices generators
3) Possible a nice side effect: the inner part of the exhaust stream might accelerate flow to the trailing edge of the outer part of the diffuser, improving expansion rate somewhat …
- Disadvantages:
1) The expansion of the exhaust flow means less energy, hence less down force induced.
2) It has a longer way along the floor before reaching the diffuser edge, hence less energy
3) The drag through the tunnels will simply be significantly higher than the drag through the open area below the exhaust pods à la McLaren
b) Concentric or narrow expansion of the exhaust gases (McLaren solution):
It also has 3 advantages and 3 disadvantages, therefore it`s a close call …
Advantages:
- the transverse flow of around the side pods of the McLaren keeps the exhaust flow more focused, hence more energized
- short run towards diffuser, hence less energy loss
- this solution works better for the car stability under braking
Disadvantages:
- more influenced by the vortices generators - VG
- not very good predictability of the plume trajectory in various turns and various speeds
- needs 10% more fuel
2. Where is sweet spot for the exhaust plume to hit the floor?
3. It`s allowed to accelerate the exhaust plume?
I mean you could use:
a) slots into the bodywork before the exhaust duct (something like Hamilton was using in the second day of testing in Barcelona, when he run with an 2012 modify exhaust solution). With a better positioning this slot may increase the downwash effect …
b) you could also have side slots in the proximity of the exhaust duct (in addition to the above slot). All of these slots are in order to concentrate hence accelerate the exhaust plume.
c) could be used a particular nozzle for the exhaust duct or maybe better for the exhaust ramp? This nozzle (don`t know the name) was used by Mercedes in 2011.
4. This nozzle mentioned above could be used in front of the air intakes of engine or radiators? In order to increase the air flow velocity …
5. Rear brake wing lets acts like a flow conditioner to the exhaust plume?

[turbof1]

1. Difficult to tell due it's not only the efficiency of the exhaust you have to worry about. It could very well be that the Red Bull ramp/tunnel is better for the exhaust efficiency, only to have that advantage destroyed due airflow being blocked.

2. The sweet spot is as close to the 2011 solution as possible: between the wheels and the edge of the floor, so that you can close off the diffuser.

3. It's theoritically allowed, but the FIA does not want "reingestion through bodywork", making it very difficult to do so.
4. Perhaps, yes. Not much to comment on that.
5. I think not; they look to be too far away to influence the exhaust flow.

[Juzh]

So, if those new engine maps do indeed get a red light from the FIA, can we expect less rake from RB? Seeing as they probably won't be able to seal the difusser edges as well anymore.

[Robbobnob]

Judging whether any one solution of exhaust blowing is better is pointless as each individual car has a unique way of interacting with the air.

Starting from the front wing, the airflow under the nose and around the wheels will effect the flow under, over and around the sidepods and through to the coke bottle. Therefore how the exhaust plume interacts with this airflow will be different to any other car, particularly as Red bull have very distinctive side pods.

Not to mention each team will be trying to achieve their own specific goals with the exhaust blowing. Some trying to seal the diffusor, some blowing the rear wheel uprights - Aiding flow under the beam wing - feeding the starter hole to reduce drag.

Some cars might be front limited so instead of downforce they are interesting in a drag reduction. Another team may use it to fill the wake behind the rear wheels.

One thing you can be certain of, the Teams will have evaluated many styles of exhaust and settled upon their design as it provides them with the greatest percieved performance gain, whether than be in terms of drag reduction, downforce increase, Mid corner speed - corner exit traction - breaking stability or a combination of those effects.

Knowing Red Bull, their solution will be in terms of the biggest laptime gain possible.

[Gridlock]

So, if those new engine maps do indeed get a red light from the FIA, can we expect less rake from RB? Seeing as they probably won't be able to seal the difusser edges as well anymore.

I'm beginning to think the most informative photos we could analyse would be those of Adrian Newey's face upon reading the latest TDs.

[raymondu999]

I think we have to remember that last year they were already using this side pod family. If they were using maps that were legal at the end of last year, then any blowing effect they have now achieved is a bonus over last year. IMO as shown last year the sidepods still work competitively without any new blowing.

It's not like changing an exhaust map would have taken up chassis development time from Newey & Co. - at least I don't think it will - because that would be down to the engine techs rather than the chassis designers.

IMO the rake will stay the same as whatever they had last year - though I haven't compared Brazil-spec RB8 rake to the RB9 rake.

[gandharva]

Renault was using a new map using a new max torque for 2013.

Only rumors. AMUS is only speculating that Renault could have tested new mappings... Imho just some "blablah" to fill the gap between the tests.

When I look at the last posts in this thread, it seems it worked. Kudos AMUS! =D>

[FrukostScones]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105739

blub blub

[Joie de vivre]

I'm so sick of this engine mapping debate. FIA should set straight regulation about this once and for all. Every year same story over and over again.

[stefan_]

Barcelona (Session 2) - Day 1 (28.02.2013)

[Nando]

- needs 10% more fuel

This is because of the Mercedes engine or because of the exhaust design?

[gandharva]

Why don't they use smaller break-cooling-inlets, but close half of the big ones?

[stefan_]

Barcelona (Session 2) - Day 1 (28.02.2013)