Mercedes AMG F1 W04

[beelsebob]

where is the monkey seat ?

I really don't get why people on this forum have such a hard-on for monkey seats.

They provide VERY LITTLE downforce and LOTS of drag (~0.01CL and ~0.015CD. For comparison, cars have ~3.5-4.5CL and 1.0-1.4CD total). This makes their efficiency (which is the main target for aero setups) very poor. Their main use in on circuits where drag is not important (i.e Monaco) and to provide stability to a rear wing if the design causes separation under certain conditions.

Do you have a source for those figures? Not disputing them, I'd just like to see the evidence.

[ImAnEngineer]

where is the monkey seat ?

I really don't get why people on this forum have such a hard-on for monkey seats.

They provide VERY LITTLE downforce and LOTS of drag (~0.01CL and ~0.015CD. For comparison, cars have ~3.5-4.5CL and 1.0-1.4CD total). This makes their efficiency (which is the main target for aero setups) very poor. Their main use in on circuits where drag is not important (i.e Monaco) and to provide stability to a rear wing if the design causes separation under certain conditions.

Do you have a source for those figures? Not disputing them, I'd just like to see the evidence.

You don't have to believe me, but I worked at one of the teams until midway through the 2012 season.

[beelsebob]

You don't have to believe me, but I worked at one of the teams until midway through the 2012 season.

Fair enough, I can understand why you can't produce sources then. Can you tell us why teams run monkey seats then? I mean, it's not strictly limited to super high DF circuits like Monaco, so how come we end up seeing them at places like CoTA?

[ImAnEngineer]

You don't have to believe me, but I worked at one of the teams until midway through the 2012 season.

Fair enough, I can understand why you can't produce sources then. Can you tell us why teams run monkey seats then? I mean, it's not strictly limited to super high DF circuits like Monaco, so how come we end up seeing them at places like CoTA?

As I said, they also provide stability to the rear wing. If a team has developed a super aggresive wing that has a great L/D, but the flow separates under extreme conditions the monkey seat might still be beneficial.

[infy]

You don't have to believe me, but I worked at one of the teams until midway through the 2012 season.

HRT I'm guessing, because they started shutting down about mid-way? Nice to have someone of your caliber here to give us some solid insight.

[beelsebob]

You don't have to believe me, but I worked at one of the teams until midway through the 2012 season.

Fair enough, I can understand why you can't produce sources then. Can you tell us why teams run monkey seats then? I mean, it's not strictly limited to super high DF circuits like Monaco, so how come we end up seeing them at places like CoTA?

As I said, they also provide stability to the rear wing. If a team has developed a super aggresive wing that has a great L/D, but the flow separates under extreme conditions the monkey seat might still be beneficial.

Ah interesting, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight!

[Tim.Wright]

I really don't get why people on this forum have such a hard-on for monkey seats.

When I start a rock band, we shall go by the name of "hard-on for monkey seats"

[Blackout]

You don't have to believe me, but I worked at one of the teams until midway through the 2012 season.

Fair enough, I can understand why you can't produce sources then. Can you tell us why teams run monkey seats then? I mean, it's not strictly limited to super high DF circuits like Monaco, so how come we end up seeing them at places like CoTA?

As I said, they also provide stability to the rear wing. If a team has developed a super aggresive wing that has a great L/D, but the flow separates under extreme conditions the monkey seat might still be beneficial.

Indeed.

From 8:20 in this video
http://youtu.be/2SioY0N69zk

[Shakeman]

You don't have to believe me, but I worked at one of the teams until midway through the 2012 season.

HRT I'm guessing, because they started shutting down about mid-way? Nice to have someone of your caliber here to give us some solid insight.

Let's not play guess the engineer.

I agree, it'll be fantastic if he hangs around and is a regular contributor to have current F1 knowledge feed into the discussion.

Already learnt something about the dual role of the monkey seat today which is great. Thanks ImAnEngineer.

[MercAMGF1Fans]

[stefan_]

Barcelona (Session 2) - Day 1 (28.02.2013)









High resolution:

Diffuser
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 040.38.jpg

Back
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 040.74.jpg

Side
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 043.87.jpg

Front wing
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 048.32.jpg

Other
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 047.93.jpg
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 048.69.jpg
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 050.23.jpg

[Nando]

Looking at the diffuser pic, why are they running what looks like a small "wall" on the outer edge of it?
Won´t that hinder the exhaust gases to encapsulate the outsides of the diffuser-flow?

[kris]

http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 043.52.jpg

They seem to be running the small slit in the floor ahead of the rear tire (similar to what redbull and ferrari ran last year). Did they have that before or is it a new floor?

[ringo]

where is the monkey seat ?

I really don't get why people on this forum have such a hard-on for monkey seats.

They provide VERY LITTLE downforce and LOTS of drag (~0.01CL and ~0.015CD. For comparison, cars have ~3.5-4.5CL and 1.0-1.4CD total). This makes their efficiency (which is the main target for aero setups) very poor. Their main use in on circuits where drag is not important (i.e Monaco) and to provide stability to a rear wing if the design causes separation under certain conditions.

Finaly! [-o<
I've been harping on cheap and dirty downforce all this time. Nice way explaining.
Especially the effect on the rear wing. It's a desperado part so to speak.

[Ferraripilot]

http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 043.52.jpg

They seem to be running the small slit in the floor ahead of the rear tire (similar to what redbull and ferrari ran last year). Did they have that before or is it a new floor?

That has indeed been there since launch.


The rear suspension tidying looks decent.

regarding cooling exits:
There seems to be two obvious schools of thought with regards to sidepod exits, one is the Red Bull exit just ahead of the beam wing with a large hole. It's obvious Red Bull's solution impedes flow under the rear wing quite a bit which is why their primary competitors have opted for the lower exit area around the rear suspension area thus providing a far slimmer area directly in front of the beam wing but at the cost of a small amount of area around the suspension. I'm wondering if this is going to be the year Red Bull rethink that platform as from my perspective the flow lost traveling under the wing is more valuable than the dirty flow gained around the rear suspension.