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McLaren today celebrates its 50 years of existence as today marks the day that New Zealander Bruce McLaren inaugurated Bruce McLaren Motor Racing Ltd on September 2, 1963.
IIRC Tombaziz has made a career of switching between Macca and The Scuderia.raymondu999 wrote:I'm quite sure Prodromou, Fry, Tombazis, Iley and de la Rosa were all from McLaren too...
I doubt Mclaren are out of touch, just look at Vettel's salary, he is extremly underpaid compared to the other top 5 driversPup wrote:Which is similar to what they said when Hamilton left. I don't doubt that money was the deciding factor in both cases (as opposed than just McLaren being bitter about it). To me, McLaren's response in both cases is complete bewilderment that Merc thinks the salaries they offered are justified. Question is, are Merc spending too freely, or are McLaren just out of touch?
Assuming you count Vettel as a top 5 driver of course.CjC wrote:I doubt Mclaren are out of touch, just look at Vettel's salary, he is extremly underpaid compared to the other top 5 driversPup wrote:Which is similar to what they said when Hamilton left. I don't doubt that money was the deciding factor in both cases (as opposed than just McLaren being bitter about it). To me, McLaren's response in both cases is complete bewilderment that Merc thinks the salaries they offered are justified. Question is, are Merc spending too freely, or are McLaren just out of touch?
Merc need to do something to attract top tallent, and establish themselves as a top team. The way Red Bull did this was trivial – spend more money than everyone else. Merc are attempting to follow the same strategy, and honestly, I don't blame them.to answer your question I think Merc are spending too freely, surely paying Lowe with a massive salary means that they cant afford to pay as many employees on a 'normal' salary than they would like?
There's not really any substence there, beyond "blah blah blah, I like McLaren and can predict the future".He'll want his job back in afew years anyway when Merc decide to pull the plug, hopefully Mclaren will have developed a superior V6 and wont be a customer to Merc anymore and supplying their own customer teams
I don't know – I have nothing to compare him to, other than a known mediocre driver.CjC wrote:Is Vettel not in the top 5?
At least in the case of RedBull, yes, it is – that's the point – the company makes more money selling fizzy drinks than they do advertising said fizzy drinks, even with their expensive, non-conventional advertising methods. Who knows with Merc whether it's sustainable or not. I'm not sure why we're talking about this in the McLaren thread though.The way Red Bull went about it and the way Merc are going about it isnt sustainable.
Agreed, that's why I'm unsure of Merc, but certain of RedBull – entertainment industries do well in a recession, so RedBull is just fine. The automotive industry... Less so. The way Merc can almost certainly make it work is by becoming a top 3 team. If they can throw enough money that given a year or two they win the WCC, then that may just count as good enough advertising to sell some high performance cars.Yes I do like Mclaren, this is the Mclaren thread after all. I predict the furture? No, I just witnessed ALL of the non-luxurious car manufacturers who became full constructors pull out of F1, some of them before the global economy smashed. Reb Bull can just about sustain their current level of involvement becasue I doubt they have felt the recession much, I'm sure pop drink sales havent dipped that much, car sales has.
There's a difference between a luxury car, and a super car.I consider Merc a non-luxurious car manufacturer, you cant lease hire a Ferrari or Mclaren for 280 a month
Well in each of the last 4 years, F1 bosses put Vettel ahead of Hamilton!beelsebob wrote:I don't know – I have nothing to compare him to, other than a known mediocre driver.CjC wrote:Is Vettel not in the top 5?
But to be fair in 2008 Hamilton managed to beat him in Vettel's first full season. Well kudos to him for this achievement.Interesting. Posts about Vettel on a McLaren technical thread? Have I missed something?LionKing wrote:Well in each of the last 4 years, F1 bosses put Vettel ahead of Hamilton!beelsebob wrote:I don't know – I have nothing to compare him to, other than a known mediocre driver.CjC wrote:Is Vettel not in the top 5?
If I recall correctly, Vettel was twice voted the best driver and twice the runner up to Alonso. So if you don't put Vettel in top 5, god knows where you could place Hamilton
Look`s like Ive called it right, well see soon enough, surely will have to answer to all the media hype!KingHamilton01 wrote:So a lot of people talk about how McLaren have now been weakened as a team from the departure of both Hamilton and now Lowe. I wanted to take this opportunity to share some thought`s with everyone and see if you agree or disagree, perhap`s in wake of these departure`s this will mean McLaren will spend the next couple of years in transition.
The Question is where is McLaren`s biggest weakness? is it the team principal Whitmarsh doesn`t come across as being serious enough at times and then will state the obvious that the team need`s to perform better,then we have the Mercedes engine, there has been big discussion of recent about the fuel pump failure`s and even still after a modified part at the start of testing fail`s! generally regarded as a top engine but yet Renault better for driveability.
On the subject of the engine, if McLaren are entering a period of transition surely they should embrace it and look at change? I think they could look at going in house to build there own engine`s, surely they have the know how and facilities to do this but I don`t pretend to know anything about what sort of budget you would need to do this. The other option could be to look at another engine supplier and maybe McLaren could look at going back to using Honda engine`s? to forge a relationship with them instead of carrying on using Mercedes engines as surely in 2014 they will not help McLaren as much as they have in the past.
Finally the driver`s I as many view the 2013 as an important one for Jenson, I believe that with the tyre life and tyre preservation been more important than ever, this could be Jenson`s best opportunity for the championship. So if McLaren and Jenson fail does that mean they look elsewhere for another driver as he isn`t getting any younger that`s for sure. Im interested to know what people`s thought`s and opinion`s are regarding these subject`s and idea`s!
I may be wrong but I'll go out on a limp and say that Jenson isn't going to get it done. I mean a guy who gets lost doing set up work will be hot today, cold the next minute. You can't win a championship against redbull and vettel, or alonso unless you have a brawn type advantage with that sort of weekness. He got lost and had to look to barichello, did the same with hamilton, and now, he and sergio are supposedly having a hard time finding the best setup. I frankly think he doens't have a base set up from a good driver to fine tune for his magic and I expect them to struggle.KingHamilton01 wrote:Look`s like Ive called it right, well see soon enough, surely will have to answer to all the media hype!KingHamilton01 wrote:So a lot of people talk about how McLaren have now been weakened as a team from the departure of both Hamilton and now Lowe. I wanted to take this opportunity to share some thought`s with everyone and see if you agree or disagree, perhap`s in wake of these departure`s this will mean McLaren will spend the next couple of years in transition.
The Question is where is McLaren`s biggest weakness? is it the team principal Whitmarsh doesn`t come across as being serious enough at times and then will state the obvious that the team need`s to perform better,then we have the Mercedes engine, there has been big discussion of recent about the fuel pump failure`s and even still after a modified part at the start of testing fail`s! generally regarded as a top engine but yet Renault better for driveability.
On the subject of the engine, if McLaren are entering a period of transition surely they should embrace it and look at change? I think they could look at going in house to build there own engine`s, surely they have the know how and facilities to do this but I don`t pretend to know anything about what sort of budget you would need to do this. The other option could be to look at another engine supplier and maybe McLaren could look at going back to using Honda engine`s? to forge a relationship with them instead of carrying on using Mercedes engines as surely in 2014 they will not help McLaren as much as they have in the past.
Finally the driver`s I as many view the 2013 as an important one for Jenson, I believe that with the tyre life and tyre preservation been more important than ever, this could be Jenson`s best opportunity for the championship. So if McLaren and Jenson fail does that mean they look elsewhere for another driver as he isn`t getting any younger that`s for sure. Im interested to know what people`s thought`s and opinion`s are regarding these subject`s and idea`s!