With just two weeks to go before the 2013 Formula One season gets underway in Melbourne, the final four-day test took place in Barcelona, with two days of wet weather followed by two days of dry running. This enabled the teams to sample the entire range of 2013 Pirelli tyres and finally provided conditions representative to racing.
LilDEF1 wrote:"I think it's important to bring
everyone back down to earth and
realise that we've still got a lot of work to do." - Hamilton
No stress the guy did just that over here... Moving on
JimClarkFan wrote:Neno wrote:Dont be like that, every once when regulations change one team become top dog, it was ferrari, then renault, now red bull and this going sometime until regulations change again, and new team become top dog. It's not something you should worry about, Mercedes will NEVER win championship in this regulation era they were too far last season to win championship this year, also 3 more teams are better then them and beat them directly in devolopment area last year.LilDEF1 wrote: And that means what exactly? They'll be forever fast? Anyway I'm not talking about any particular team, I mean thing do change from time to time. I guess most people were worried Mercedes were gonna perform poorly this year as last year. I remember on AutoSPORT Live last year they always pointed how bad the car was with their tires. There was massive degradation, even though they were initially fast. This time at least they don't seem any worse compared to the Red Bulls and Mac. I guess that's what got most people hopeful. There is nothing wrong with that for sure.. I mean really now
Most of us this is hard to reckognize, but this is absolute truth. And please never compare Red Bull to Mercedes, it's like you comparing 3-dimensional team with 2 dimensional. Not even Hamilton can make that progress, he couldnt do it even in Mclaren.
Mclaren will be quick though I think they missed a trick in not keeping with the 27 and doing a evolution rather than new design think it will take them 3-4 races to get to speed of their car
Hamilton just posted a lap 1.2 seconds faster than the pole last year and there is a lot of development time between now and Spain this year. An even rosier picture emerges when you look at the rest of the cars in the field from Maldonardo down who weren't on low fuel - Hams time is then 1.8 seconds faster. And we have no idea if they were all out in quali trim.
Merc have taken off some serious time since last year, well over 2 seconds and look pretty good if you ask me.
The big unknown for me is Macca, they are complaining about not understanding the car but yet look pretty quick.
Yes he did, and the car was indeed a good car at the beginning of the year, so that actually lends some credence to the idea that if Merc look good in testing they'll also look good in Melbourne.Mandrake wrote:Well Bob, that's what MGP have done for how many seasons now? MSC topped the timesheets in BCN last year as well didn't he?beelsebob wrote:Remember, McLaren, Ferrari and RedBull developed their 2012 car nearly up to Brazil. Merc have probably been working seriously on their '13 car for much longer.
Merc have also had their first full year with a lot of new technical staff, who will have brought with them a lot of the tricks of the top teams. I have no doubt that they could have gained a very significant amount on the top teams.
Right, they got out developed, but that has nothing to do with what we're discussing now, which is whether the W04 has genuine pace right now.Didn't do them too good later in the season....
Sure, I'm not jumping to conclusions – and I expect the top teams can probably get close, match, or beat that time. But... What it clearly shows us is that Merc are up there with the top teams.I can understand that your feelings for Hamilton make you hope the pace is genuine, but I wouldn't jump conclusions too early.
2007-2008 Both Ferrari and Mclaren took a title.Neno wrote: Dont be like that, every once when regulations change one team become top dog, it was ferrari, then renault, now red bull and this going sometime until regulations change again, and new team become top dog. It's not something you should worry about, Mercedes will NEVER win championship in this regulation era they were too far last season to win championship this year, also 3 more teams are better then them and beat them directly in devolopment area last year.
Most of us this is hard to reckognize, but this is absolute truth. And please never compare Red Bull to Mercedes, it's like you comparing 3-dimensional team with 2 dimensional. Not even Hamilton can make that progress, he couldnt do it even in Mclaren.
Compared to what? Barcelona last year, or Brasil last year? Because comparing today's times to last years Barcelona times is pretty much a blind alley atm. Mind you, I am not saying they have not clawed back a big chunk of the pace deficit they had last season, but as to what extent I have no idea, until I see either comparable race sims tomorrow, or comparable qualy sims tomorrow, or both. There is little chance now for either to happen. Personally, I think they have a decent car, with pretty good development possibilities. The season is long, and if they prove to be in the mix for podiums, literally anything is possible. So far, they developed the car from day one, and on a day-to-day basis, and ALL the upgrades worked. they have kept a low profile - apart from Roscoe - and have shown a steady growth of spine. That's certainly something to build on. But this lap time, just as Hamilton has said today, counts for little until you can directly compare it to the competition, and that will not happen, unfortunately, in Barcelona. Not to say that it is still not necessarily indicative of similar race-pace. RB, McLaren, Ferrari, and even Lotus are big unknowns. Just as Mercedes is, from the other side of the glass paine.JimClarkFan wrote:Neno wrote:LilDEF1 wrote: .
Hamilton just posted a lap 1.2 seconds faster than the pole last year and there is a lot of development time between now and Spain this year. An even rosier picture emerges when you look at the rest of the cars in the field from Maldonardo down who weren't on low fuel - Hams time is then 1.8 seconds faster. And we have no idea if they were all out in quali trim.
Merc have taken off some serious time since last year, well over 2 seconds and look pretty good if you ask me.
The big unknown for me is Macca, they are complaining about not understanding the car but yet look pretty quick.
I believe we have, but rather more broken up than we usually would, and that makes it less clear when it's happening.CjC wrote:I think the merc is in the top 4 and will definitely be a top 4 tea for the flyaways. How ever I don't think mclaren are and if I'm right and they aren't they then need to be looking at the start of The European season to get into the top 4.
Correct me if I'm wrong but we haven't seen many race sims this year have we in testing?
How you conclude to red bull and maca can lap about 1.19 ?????????Artur Craft wrote:I highly doubt.k.ko100v wrote:http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... G_1169.jpg
Deffinetly low rear downforce setup - slimer RW and no monkey seat. Should they have an extremly high rear downforce and reduce it by the wing, to balance the car...?
W04 is better than W03 because it doesn't have a dated rear end like the latter had. But Mercedes is playing catch up here and all the others are ahead on this development.
Mercedes is definitely making an effort for media laps but my guess right now is last positions of Q3 for them
Sauber was doing lot's of laps on 1.22.5 and their baseline fuel is 100kg. Felipe's did 1.21 low and Ferrari's baseline fuel is 60kg.
Red Bull and Mclaren, to say the least, can most probably lap in the 1.19s
Don't get carried away with the time nor compare it with pole time because cold temperatures increase a lot the downforce making the cars several seconds faster from winter to summer.
W04 have no, at least superficially, thing compromising it's design but it doesn't have anything revolutionary either, it looks merely a top midfield car.
I know people here are deeply passionate as this thread had way more pages than any other. Despite this being a technical forum, Hamilton fans are all over it spreading positivism and wishfull thinking but Lewis himself already confirmed several times that the car clearly lacks in downforce and, despite an improvement, it's still behind
Where does the layout differ? The footage shown on sky shows them running the exact same layout as in the race.turbof1 wrote:They are not running the same track layout. Comparing the test times to the qualifying times is very fruitless. I do believe they can dive under 1:20:0 in qualy mode on supersofts.
Barcelona in the winter is much faster than when they actually race on it, many guys did better times in winter testing than they managed during the real qualifying.JimClarkFan wrote:
Hamilton just posted a lap 1.2 seconds faster than the pole last year and there is a lot of development time between now and Spain this year. An even rosier picture emerges when you look at the rest of the cars in the field from Maldonardo down who weren't on low fuel - Hams time is then 1.8 seconds faster. And we have no idea if they were all out in quali trim.
Merc have taken off some serious time since last year, well over 2 seconds and look pretty good if you ask me.
The big unknown for me is Macca, they are complaining about not understanding the car but yet look pretty quick.
Up until now at least Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull have been reported to have bigger team budgets, it will be hard to see whether or not they have solved this development problem because teams will be looking to the 2014 cars which will probably have a big affect on the cars each team produces for 2015 aswell. I know Brawn has said they have 2 seperate design teams for 2013 and 2014 but at some point the engineers working on the 2013 car will become part of the 2014 team. I am confident with what I have read and heard so far in the past few months that Mercedes won't drop off as badly as they did in 2012.Afterburner wrote:.
Another problem it's their development pace/development base that can't match the other top teams.
