McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[Forza]

BCN T03 - Day 4

Similar angle http://i.imgur.com/I84uFIT.jpg

[CjC]

Ok they experts are telling us that at the moment the Mclaren isn't looking to great (in the cold temps of winter testing) because of understeer.

First of all, I feel that its better for the car to have understeer rather than oversteer and a lack of traction, becasue if the car in understeering as I understand it, the car in theory has alot of rear downforce, so is it just a case of undertanding the new pull rod suspension to dial out the understeer?

Secondly, could the warmer temperatures that F1 chases around the world all year negate the understeer issues?

Thirdly, there is alot of talk about the front tyres graining, whats the word on the rear tyres? I would assume they are ok becasue understeer effects the front tyres, oversteer- the rears

[N12ck]

Look at how 'fat' the mclaren looks around the rear end/sidepods compared to the ferrari

[Pup]

Secondly, could the warmer temperatures that F1 chases around the world all year negate the understeer issues?

Likely. AMuS has said that the McLaren has looked much more stable and consistent on the higher temp testing days. Perhaps everyone will find the tires easier to predict in warmer conditions, but I do wonder if the teams who seem to have the tires sorted in these colder temps will in fact find them melting off the wheels in Australia.

And I do still wonder about that first day of testing, and how quickly McLaren began playing down their chances afterwards. It's not suspicious enough to cry "Sandbagging!" and predict a McLaren rout - It's just barely enough to raise an eyebrow. But still...fingers crossed.

[Joie de vivre]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... G_2012.jpg
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... G_1899.jpg

Look at how 'fat' the mclaren looks around the rear end/sidepods compared to the ferrari

Also interesting how high are front wishbones at mclaren and pullrod is very horizontal compared to ferraris'.

[Owen.C93]

Practically every update since mid last year has either been a simplification or reverting their previous updates.

They maintained speed throughout, but some worrying signs from the wind tunnel.

[CjC]

Practically every update since mid last year has either been a simplification or reverting their previous updates.

They maintained speed throughout, but some worrying signs from the wind tunnel.

That'd be Toyota's old windtunnel?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... G_2012.jpg
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... G_1899.jpg

Look at how 'fat' the mclaren looks around the rear end/sidepods compared to the ferrari

Also interesting how high are front wishbones at mclaren and pullrod is very horizontal compared to ferraris'.

Quite, Ferrari's layout is of the same angle as last years Ferrari, so its not as if Ferrari have changed the angle this year due to a years worth of knowledge. Mclaren have seen Ferraris 'shallow' angle pullrod suspension and have decided to go with a 'steeper' angles pull rod suspension layout from the get go.

Look at how 'fat' the mclaren looks around the rear end/sidepods compared to the ferrari

The Mclaren does look 'fatter' but I thought having wider sidepods accelerates airflow around them and improves the diffuser? If thats isnt the case then there is serious room for development for Mclaren there, thinking back to last season it took the till half way (far too long mind you) to redesign the sidepods and once they did the car became ultra competitve again.

Secondly, could the warmer temperatures that F1 chases around the world all year negate the understeer issues?

Likely. AMuS has said that the McLaren has looked much more stable and consistent on the higher temp testing days. Perhaps everyone will find the tires easier to predict in warmer conditions, but I do wonder if the teams who seem to have the tires sorted in these colder temps will in fact find them melting off the wheels in Australia.

And I do still wonder about that first day of testing, and how quickly McLaren began playing down their chances afterwards. It's not suspicious enough to cry "Sandbagging!" and predict a Mclaren rout - It's just barely enough to raise an eyebrow. But still...fingers crossed.

I thought that warmer track temperatures might help Mclarens problem and to an extent all the other teams tyre woes.

Speaking of Jerez, as it seems the Mclaren currently (we think) is front limited and Jerez is a rear limiting circuit, the Mclaren seemed more competitive there than at Barcelona because Barcelona is a front limiting circuit (baring the last sector) or am I just trying to see something more than there is?

[chumma]

I just think this McLaren is kind to its fronts, therefore making it harder to heat them up, coupled with colder than what we expect conditions, I see this as a positive. if the McLaren looked awesome and worked the tyres perfectly, I'd be worried because as someone already mentioned, when we got to a hot race they would just burn through. I think we will be strong this year, in a reverse of Sauber from last year, strong in the hot, weaker in the cool.

[mkay]

I just think this McLaren is kind to its fronts, therefore making it harder to heat them up, coupled with colder than what we expect conditions, I see this as a positive. if the McLaren looked awesome and worked the tyres perfectly, I'd be worried because as someone already mentioned, when we got to a hot race they would just burn through. I think we will be strong this year, in a reverse of Sauber from last year, strong in the hot, weaker in the cool.

If so, then the issue will be qualifying (except for the Singapore/Malaysia-type races). Does not bode well for Jenson.

[chumma]

I just think this McLaren is kind to its fronts, therefore making it harder to heat them up, coupled with colder than what we expect conditions, I see this as a positive. if the McLaren looked awesome and worked the tyres perfectly, I'd be worried because as someone already mentioned, when we got to a hot race they would just burn through. I think we will be strong this year, in a reverse of Sauber from last year, strong in the hot, weaker in the cool.

If so, then the issue will be qualifying (except for the Singapore/Malaysia-type races). Does not bode well for Jenson.

Not really, once the temperatures are at normal (mid 20's) then the fronts will be fine, they just wont burn out or 'go away' as the lap goes on like sometimes last year, which I find a positive. Whichever way I look at it, I think a lot of people have written McLaren off, and we will upset a few journos predictions.

Ps that picture above are different angles, firstly the McLaren is a lot closer to camera.

[sirexilon]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... G_2012.jpg
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... G_1899.jpg

Look at how 'fat' the mclaren looks around the rear end/sidepods compared to the ferrari

IT is because of the angle and how different they are handling the sidepods downwash, ferrari had to re do sidepods to be mor flat and steeped, mcLaren so far didn't need to modify that.

Even though times are not looking great, I think McLaren has something in the sleves and that the car will show up it's legs in Melburne.

[bhall]

Anyone know what's going on with the McLaren?



I think...

Ferrari adopted those little bulges on the top of the sidepod inlets on the F60 for "aerodynamic reasons," according to Costa, to catch a bit of airflow and direct it into the sidepods rather than allow it to travel over the sidepods. Fair enough.

Ferrari adopted the front pull rod suspension on the F2012 for a "slight aerodynamic improvement" according to Tombazis. They simultaneously lost the inlet bulges, which leads me to believe Tombazis' "slight aerodynamic improvement" was the use of the pull rod to direct that little bit of flow into the sidepods rather than use the bulges to catch it. Also fair enough.

Now, McLaren has adopted a high nose, the pull rod, and the extreme suspension geometry that inherently goes along with both. Yet, they've retained the bulges. (Such an awful word, by the way. Anyone got anything better?)

I'm fully aware that one thing doesn't necessarily mean another. But, still. Something doesn't add up.

You can see the inlets have been cut a bit lower into the face of the sidepods, apparently in a position to catch whatever aiflow is redirected to them from the pull rods, which lay directly in front of them. Yet, the rest of the inlet opening is still pretty big.

The sidepods themselves are considerably larger than other cars (presumably) "at the front of the grid", so much so that they appear to hamper the efficiency of the rear wing, which remains a proverbial barn door. All the cars with slim, tidy rear-ends - think: Red Bull, Sauber, Lotus, Ferrari - also have noticeably shallower rear wings. ("You Are the Wind Beneath My Wings" is an ode to F1 aerodynamicists, by the way. The more airflow you can get under the wing, the less you have to accept the induced drag penalty of a relatively high AoA.)

So, what gives?

Before you accuse me of trolling for Ferrari or whatever, just know that I think victories are made sweeter and defeats less bitter when your historic rivals are strong, dig?

[Owen.C93]

Bulges are there for the side impact structures allowing the actual sidepod inlets to be set back further.

[CjC]

courtesy of Sky Sports:

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... er-testing

McLAREN
Speculation McLaren may be in a fair bit of bother was given grippy traction at the conclusion of the first Barcelona meet with the admission of Jenson Button that the team were struggling to understand their revolutionary new charger.

But as written at the time, McLaren's lack of clarity was precisely what was expected following their decision to build their new car around a brand-new design philosophy. Equal prominence also ought to be given to Jenson's relief midway through the second Barcelona test when the team enjoyed their "best day of the winter".

All the signs are that McLaren won't possess race-winning pace at the start of the season - although quick, the MP4-28 is inconsistent and "plagued by understeer" and tyre degradation according to Sky F1 pundit Mark Hughes. Yet McLaren weren't focusing on winning at Melbourne and Malaysia when they built the MP4-28. Having reached the performance ceiling with the design philosophy behind the MP4-27, their prescribed intention was to build a car they could improve throughout the campaign.

In sum, McLaren have risked going backwards in the short-term to make substantial long-term gain - and, one month after their new car's track debut, their test season has scarcely begun.

I think that is a measured and fair assesment, would you?

[bhall]

Seems fair enough.

To me, the MP4-28 looks like the result of a back-to-basics design philosophy in the wake of losing their in-house innovations like the F-duct and the U-pods, and one also undertaken in preparation for the wholesale regulation shift next year. My guess is that the MP4-29 will not be powered by Mercedes, either. That's how I rationalize the sidepods anyway. It's senseless to go down an engine-defined cooling/aerodynamic route when the work can't be carried over. This is especially true when the engine supply is a total unknown. (Personally, I think they're big and bulky to derive a sort of baseline path for an engine manufacturer who hasn't been around for a few years and may not be at an elite level anymore in terms of packaging and cooling - like Honda.)

However, none of that makes sense of the car's bizarre front suspension. Meh.