McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[aral]

Whichever way you want to call it, it just looks basic and bloated. I have a feeling that they're struggling to get development onto the car since Lowe is on gardening leave and they're reshuffling internally. Poaching Lowe is certainly a strategic move by Mercedes to move a spot up the grid.
Either WAy I hope they get this car working. At the moment it doesn't look very consistent

Looking bloated is not neccessarily a bad thing. There are different aero theories , and filling the space between the wheels is one way of achieving good airflow. It is the overall shaping that crerates the best aerodynamic soultion, not just one aspect. Wide sidepods do not weigh more, and they allow better airflow under the bodywork.
McLaren have had no cooling issues, whereas cars with tighter pods, such as Ferrari and Merc (not sure about Sauber) have had problems.
Pushing the air through the sidepods or outside them, makes little difference. Some bulbous cars actually have better cd numbers than slim cars.

[Coefficient]

Seems fair enough.

To me, the MP4-28 looks like the result of a back-to-basics design philosophy in the wake of losing their in-house innovations like the F-duct and the U-pods, and one also undertaken in preparation for the wholesale regulation shift next year. My guess is that the MP4-29 will not be powered by Mercedes, either. That's how I rationalize the sidepods anyway. It's senseless to go down an engine-defined cooling/aerodynamic route when the work can't be carried over. This is especially true when the engine supply is a total unknown. (Personally, I think they're big and bulky to derive a sort of baseline path for an engine manufacturer who hasn't been around for a few years and may not be at an elite level anymore in terms of packaging and cooling - like Honda.)

However, none of that makes sense of the car's bizarre front suspension. Meh.

Also, the teams tend to design and manufacture their own engine acilliaries such as cooling. I wouldn't be surprised if Mclaren just wanted a V6 from someone and strapped their own ERS to it. Williams too probably.

[Coefficient]

I remember the MP4 26 A was hopeless in testing. That winter they endend the final test having achieved no meaningful mileage on track due to horrendous reliability and had shown poor pace to boot. However, in the 2 weeks prior to Melbourne they reverted to a fallback specification of the car which made the 26 the second fastest car with no reliability concerns whatsoever. That car easily remained the best car after the Red Bull and secured JB 2nd in the championship.

As such I prefer to wait to see what they will bolt on to the MP4 28A between now and then. I feel pretty confident that they have been running this car in a basic spec all pre season deliberately and it would not surprise me in the slightest to see significant revisions made by Australia and one of these cars on the front row.

[adwebb22]

would you buy this wooden mclaren mp4/27 model ???? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPKfNOxQUAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjcej3bAgQQ

[chumma]

I remember the MP4 26 A was hopeless in testing. That winter they endend the final test having achieved no meaningful mileage on track due to horrendous reliability and had shown poor pace to boot. However, in the 2 weeks prior to Melbourne they reverted to a fallback specification of the car which made the 26 the second fastest car with no reliability concerns whatsoever. That car easily remained the best car after the Red Bull and secured JB 2nd in the championship.

As such I prefer to wait to see what they will bolt on to the MP4 28A between now and then. I feel pretty confident that they have been running this car in a basic spec all pre season deliberately and it would not surprise me in the slightest to see significant revisions made by Australia and one of these cars on the front row.

difference is mclaren arent massively in trouble and i dont see them bolting something on untested because in 2011 they had nothing to lose

[Coefficient]

I remember the MP4 26 A was hopeless in testing. That winter they endend the final test having achieved no meaningful mileage on track due to horrendous reliability and had shown poor pace to boot. However, in the 2 weeks prior to Melbourne they reverted to a fallback specification of the car which made the 26 the second fastest car with no reliability concerns whatsoever. That car easily remained the best car after the Red Bull and secured JB 2nd in the championship.

As such I prefer to wait to see what they will bolt on to the MP4 28A between now and then. I feel pretty confident that they have been running this car in a basic spec all pre season deliberately and it would not surprise me in the slightest to see significant revisions made by Australia and one of these cars on the front row.

difference is mclaren arent massively in trouble and i dont see them bolting something on untested because in 2011 they had nothing to lose

The 26 Was designed to accept the exhaust solution they ended up using all along because they new the so called.octopus would be a gamble.the fact they didn't run it in testing shows the confidence they have in their simulations. It is a myth that McLaren panic copied red bull.

Also, I wasn't suggesting they would be trying something untested out of desperation. Rather, any modification arriving in Melbourne would be entirely planned and expected to work.

[chumma]

I remember the MP4 26 A was hopeless in testing. That winter they endend the final test having achieved no meaningful mileage on track due to horrendous reliability and had shown poor pace to boot. However, in the 2 weeks prior to Melbourne they reverted to a fallback specification of the car which made the 26 the second fastest car with no reliability concerns whatsoever. That car easily remained the best car after the Red Bull and secured JB 2nd in the championship.

As such I prefer to wait to see what they will bolt on to the MP4 28A between now and then. I feel pretty confident that they have been running this car in a basic spec all pre season deliberately and it would not surprise me in the slightest to see significant revisions made by Australia and one of these cars on the front row.

difference is mclaren arent massively in trouble and i dont see them bolting something on untested because in 2011 they had nothing to lose

The 26 Was designed to accept the exhaust solution they ended up using all along because they new the so called.octopus would be a gamble.the fact they didn't run it in testing shows the confidence they have in their simulations. It is a myth that McLaren panic copied red bull.

Also, I wasn't suggesting they would be trying something untested out of desperation. Rather, any modification arriving in Melbourne would be entirely planned and expected to work.

I think, if we get anything, it will most likely be something with the sidepod winglets/shield on rear brake ducts, I was massively disappointed with the lack of...development parts to come to the car in the last test, I thought for sure they would be able to refine the exhaust layout, its the same as it was in Brazil basically.

[R_Redding]

so called.octopus would be a gamble.the fact they didn't run it in testing

I wish people would refrain from calling it "the octopus".

It was called "the octopus" incorrectly by the press who had no idea what McLaren were trying to do.

McLaren always refer to it as the "fan tail" ....and they had a torrid time in testing with it as it broke consistently to the point where they ran out of spares to continually fix it...leading to a hastily reworked system.

Paddy Lowe explained the system on the flying lap #71 at 30mins 10 secs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyJqYko-1Oo

Rob

[spinmastermic]

McLaren are well into the developement of the MP4-29, they just started on the concept for the MP4-30.

Why would they start on the 2015 car now?

Why not start now? Sit the design team down and brainstorm ideas and problems from development on next years car. Its how McLaren work.

[ell66]

McLaren are well into the developement of the MP4-29, they just started on the concept for the MP4-30.

Why would they start on the 2015 car now?

Why not start now? Sit the design team down and brainstorm ideas and problems from development on next years car. Its how McLaren work.

Use some common sense, the rule change for 2014 will take a might effort, coupled with this years car theres no way in hell they'd of started on the 2015 car.


On a side note i think it was a really poor and unnecessary decision to change there car so much, it was a winning formula. red bull constantly evolve and look how strong they are.
Even more strange when you consider every things changing next year.

[Cam]

Use some common sense, the rule change for 2014 will take a might effort, coupled with this years car theres no way in hell they'd of started on the 2015 car.

There's no reason not to start thinking about the 2015 car. In fact, common sense suggests they would. R&D begins with broad strokes - crazy ideas, wild sketches, outlandish themes. None of these might ever be produced, but thinking about them and discussing them this far out is actually wise. One could be tossing around ideas for new materials and/or new production techniques that are not quite ready in 2013 - but will be in 2 years time. Waiting around for things to become black and white and stable before you start designing, simply isn't done when you're innovating at the leading edge.

[spinmastermic]

Use some common sense, the rule change for 2014 will take a might effort, coupled with this years car theres no way in hell they'd of started on the 2015 car.


On a side note i think it was a really poor and unnecessary decision to change there car so much, it was a winning formula. red bull constantly evolve and look how strong they are.
Even more strange when you consider every things changing next year.

Common sense in F1 is a two year lead time on cars.

[wesley123]

Yeah 2 years before for rough idea's, check on where to improve, then yes, but something more, nope.

In a sport where you cannot even predict the next race I dont think you can do any real useful stuff for 2015. With a stable ruleset, maybe, but not with a changing rule set.

It is quite likely something like 2009 would happen, and then if you are in 2008 working on 2010 and you suddenly happen to have a brawn in between that your work for 2010 suddenly goes all down the toilet.

So yeah, for rough ideas maybe, something big, nope

[aral]

so called.octopus would be a gamble.the fact they didn't run it in testing

I wish people would refrain from calling it "the octopus".

It was called "the octopus" incorrectly by the press who had no idea what McLaren were trying to do.

McLaren always refer to it as the "fan tail" ....and they had a torrid time in testing with it as it broke consistently to the point where they ran out of spares to continually fix it...leading to a hastily reworked system.

Paddy Lowe explained the system on the flying lap #71 at 30mins 10 secs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyJqYko-1Oo

Rob

And didn't the FIA ban it as it was using prohibited materials?

[beelsebob]

And didn't the FIA ban it as it was using prohibited materials?

Not quite – it was entirely legal in the form that was put on the car – it just wasn't reliable. In order to make it reliable the team would have had to have used materials that weren't legal.

But this really has very little to do with the MP4-28, except for the fan tail bearing a very vague relationship to the current coanda exhaust, just with more containment.