Williams FW35 Renault

[Sevach]

That's the "old" FW35 though.

No reason to get worked up, the only thing we can say right now is that they tried running the FW35 on an agressive raked angle during the second Barcelona test, we don't even know if it worked right...

Just because they tested it once doesn't mean that's their base setup.

[SRK]

edit. repaired

[Work_in_f1]

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... medium.jpg

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... medium.jpg

More or less the same rake angle of the Redbull

Hi-res versions

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... us/002.jpg

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... us/011.jpg

Note the steering angle, Vettel is putting way more loading in his car at the time of the picture taken.

Here´s a better one,

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8111/rakept.jpg

Nando - some really good photos there but I am a bit confused about all this talk of rake. The most obvious thing about the RB is how close the front wing is to the ground compared to the others - this is where most of the downforce advantage comes from not at the rear... The rake angle is just a consequence of trying to get the front wing lower, its got nothing to do with the diffuser angle.

[Nando]

Nando - some really good photos there but I am a bit confused about all this talk of rake. The most obvious thing about the RB is how close the front wing is to the ground compared to the others - this is where most of the downforce advantage comes from not at the rear... The rake angle is just a consequence of trying to get the front wing lower, its got nothing to do with the diffuser angle.

The more rake a team has the better they seal the diffuser which allows them to artificially create a bigger diffuser which in turn allows them to get the front wing lower to the ground.

So more downforce also indirectly gives more downforce in the front.

If you were to run the rake of the Red Bull on a car with let´s say HRT type of exhaust blowing the rear wing you would most likely have chronic oversteer pretty much everywhere.

[wesley123]

Like Work_In_F1 says, it is most likely that they use this amount of rake to bring the fw closer to the ground.

Yeah more rake creates a bigger diffuser, but at some point this rake grows too large that it cant be sealed anymore by the exhaust gasses. This rake thing isnt infinite, at some point you will notice a drop in df instead of gain, and then I am leaving the CoG out of it.

And I think that it is possible that Red bull have theirs a bit over this optimal point to bring the front wing closer to the ground.

[Jackles-UK]

The picture above is a great demonstration of one of the difficulties in running with the Williams style non-existent rear bodywork/gearbox arrangement. I'm presuming this was taken at Turn 9 at Barcelona; the drive shaft to the left rear wheel is at such an angle in comparison the the rear right under stress. Huge kudos to the team at Grove for getting it functioning, I think i'm right in saying that in the 2/3 years it's been on the car they have not had one failure which, seeing as it's a pretty extreme concept, is a fantastic acheivement.

[roadie]

Well the angle of the drive shafts has gotten less extreme with each iteration of the car since the FW33. The FW33 really had them at an angle - now they are pretty much flat. Compare and contrast!

[Nando]

Yeah more rake creates a bigger diffuser, but at some point this rake grows too large that it cant be sealed anymore by the exhaust gasses. This rake thing isnt infinite, at some point you will notice a drop in df instead of gain, and then I am leaving the CoG out of it.

This is what i´m saying.

You cannot add rake based on the fact that you want the front wing closer to the ground.
You add rake so you get optimum angle for the diffuser. Whatever that equates for the front wing height is what it is.
If you want the front wing lower, improve the efficiency of the diffuser.

[Huntresa]

Well the angle of the drive shafts has gotten less extreme with each iteration of the car since the FW33. The FW33 really had them at an angle - now they are pretty much flat. Compare and contrast!
http://abulafiaf1.files.wordpress.com/2 ... liams2.jpg

Doesnt it have something to do with them going Renault last year aswell cause i assume they had to make their gearbox work on the renault and i again assume in some respects its prob easier to get the most out of their gearbox design with renault compared with cosworth.

[turbof1]

Yeah more rake creates a bigger diffuser, but at some point this rake grows too large that it cant be sealed anymore by the exhaust gasses. This rake thing isnt infinite, at some point you will notice a drop in df instead of gain, and then I am leaving the CoG out of it.

This is what i´m saying.

You cannot add rake based on the fact that you want the front wing closer to the ground.
You add rake so you get optimum angle for the diffuser. Whatever that equates for the front wing height is what it is.
If you want the front wing lower, improve the efficiency of the diffuser.

Exactly. I think the ramp solution comes in handy as it allows better guiding of the exhaust flow towards the area between the floor and tyre, which gives a better sealing effect. The extra advantage is that you can convert the extra downforce at the front into flow conditioning towards the back, generating extra df there.
They are not doing it to get more downforce at the front btw. They can generate more then enough downforce there. But downforce at the rear is very limited. Any gain there is more then welcome, so that is why they trying to maximize rake. The lower front wing is just a very nice bonus. But it has no use to run more downforce at the front if you can't find the same amount at the back, else you upset the aero balance.


Btw, CoG is very important for teams, but they are more then willing to sacrifice that for any aero advantage. High noses, undercut sidepods,... . All are negative to CoG, but the aero advantage clearly wins. So teams aren't bothered with a higher CoG with more rake.

[Coefficient]

Well the angle of the drive shafts has gotten less extreme with each iteration of the car since the FW33. The FW33 really had them at an angle - now they are pretty much flat. Compare and contrast!
http://abulafiaf1.files.wordpress.com/2 ... liams2.jpg

Doesnt it have something to do with them going Renault last year aswell cause i assume they had to make their gearbox work on the renault and i again assume in some respects its prob easier to get the most out of their gearbox design with renault compared with cosworth.

Its to do with iterative improvements of the gearbox and diff. They were running something similar to a helicopter swash plate during 2011 to help the diff cope with the angle, I wonder if its still required.

[Sevach]

http://www.williamsf1.com/Team/Media/Ne ... P-Preview/

According to Coughlan they are still gonna test both aero configs (semi coanda and ramp) on friday.

That "makes it better on both slow and fast corners" didn't pan out?

[stefan_]

Australia 2013 - Tuesday


via Dickie Stanford

[roadie]

http://www.williamsf1.com/Team/Media/Ne ... P-Preview/

According to Coughlan they are still gonna test both aero configs (semi coanda and ramp) on friday.

That "makes it better on both slow and fast corners" didn't pan out?

Well they only ran the ramp for 2 days on a very different type of circuit so I would imagine they need more data.

Does seem a shame that the results weren't conclusive so they could focus on one system though...

[Forza]

Australian GP - Wednesday - 13/3/2013















Via Dickie Stanford