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Mercedes AMG has announced it has signed two engineers from Red Bull Racing to strengthen the technical department following the departure of Ross Brawn as team principal.
the w02 development was nearly stalled cause merc had to solve the cooling problem. at the end of the season they've found more than a second. apart from that i don't know how much a second was worth throughout that season.Cocles wrote:sAx wrote:Optimisim bias surely?Cocles wrote:You may indeed be right, but we need to make sure that we're not succumbing to availability bias....My point being, we need to make sure we're not tunnel visioning on the W03's development cycle, when there's a bigger pool of data available. Some are referring to Mercedes in-season development as being consistently bad, which doesn't hold up under scrutiny when you account for the W02. Note, I'm not saying they're particularly awesome with in-season development either. So far they seem to be more Up, Down, Up, Down...
Any way you want to examine the micro is fine, the macro though is that at the end of 2011, the consensus around here was that they had managed to maintain the gap with RBR throughout the season. The team that fell backwards throughout 2011 was... Lotus.winth304 wrote:the w02 development was nearly stalled cause merc had to solve the cooling problem. at the end of the season they've found more than a second. apart from that i don't know how much a second was worth throughout that season.
ok the floor was cooked after a race after they've introduced the EBD, cause they hadn't got enough of the heat absorbing material
Seems to me they are apple's eye of the F1 watching world. Don't know if it's that finn influence. My real issue is that after they'd been slaughtered by Mercedes 2 years on the trot they came back very strongly and had a really good season last year.Cocles wrote: The team that fell backwards throughout 2011 was... Lotus.
I guess one thing he will have that no other champion has is that if he wins with Mercedes, he´s the only guy to win with different teams.clipsy1H wrote:http://www.crash.net/f1/news/188739/1/h ... great.html
nice interview with Hamilton but to be honest if he wants to be the great! and be comparable with Schumacher / Senna / Prost /Vettel then he have to win few things and i don't know if he can with Mercedes (at the moment) probably this hungry for "big words" made him to leave McLaren and try to do something spectacular with a lower team like Mercedes.
He's so fast and a guy like him deserve a very good car because if he don't performs at his top level we all lose in terms of the show. I hope this team is on a good way and soon Lewis and Nico can fight with anybody (not just in first few races)
“The question is, do we get trophies (in 2013)?” Hamilton laughed, according to the Express newspaper.
“Great, I get to keep my trophies, oh shoot, I don’t have any,” he joked.
“It ws a small thing, but small things matter, like my helmets.
“It (his helmet) has my sweat, blood and tears in it so that is why I want to keep that,” explained Hamilton.
“Now I keep them and my trophies are my trophies.”
it's a stupid rule! i wondering why Button accepts this rule! at the end of his career he will have just few trophies (Brawn). I mean this guy win but he can take home just champagne bottleNando wrote: Also read an interview, basically it seems he wasn´t allowed to keep his helmets at Mclaren!?
http://www.f1zone.net/news/mercedes-let ... ies/18043/
“The question is, do we get trophies (in 2013)?” Hamilton laughed, according to the Express newspaper.
“Great, I get to keep my trophies, oh shoot, I don’t have any,” he joked.
“It ws a small thing, but small things matter, like my helmets.
“It (his helmet) has my sweat, blood and tears in it so that is why I want to keep that,” explained Hamilton.
“Now I keep them and my trophies are my trophies.”
. Not true for 2011.clipsy1H wrote:if we look back in last 4 years (3 Merc + 1 Brawn) they failed to update car and in the second part of the season they lose gap
are you sure?Cocles wrote:Not true for 2011.clipsy1H wrote:if we look back in last 4 years (3 Merc + 1 Brawn) they failed to update car and in the second part of the season they lose gap
Might also not be true for 2010, but for some reason I can't remember a dang thing about that season.
-> till German 105 points after German 37 points 
I think what Cocles means by 2011 is that they maintained the gap with the front runners wrt the speed of the car. They started the season arnd 1.5 seconds behind and ended with approximately the same gap. Even though they stopped the development of the W02 mid season they found some speed by just understanding the W02 better.clipsy1H wrote:are you sure?Cocles wrote:Not true for 2011.clipsy1H wrote:if we look back in last 4 years (3 Merc + 1 Brawn) they failed to update car and in the second part of the season they lose gap
Might also not be true for 2010, but for some reason I can't remember a dang thing about that season.
I will take first half till German GP and second half till end so here's the results.
2010 till German GP: 3 x 3 place ; 2 x 4 place : 3 x 5 place ; 2 x 6 place ; 1 x 7 place ; 1 x 8 place ; 2 x 9 place ; 3 x 10 place ; 1x 11 place ; 1x 12 place ; 1x 15 place and 1 ret. AFTER GERMAN GP : 2 x 4 place ; 2x 5 place ; 3x 6 place ; 2x 7 place; 1x 9 place ; 1x 11 place ; 1x 13 place ; 1x 17 place and 3 ret
2011 till German GP: 1x 4 place ; 2x 5 place ; 2x 6 place ; 3x 7 place ; 2x 8 place ; 2x 9 place ; 2x 11 place ; 2x 12 place ; 1x 18 place ; + 3 ret AFTER GERMAN GP: 3x 5 place ; 4x 6 place ; 3x 7 place ; 1x 8 place ; 1x 9 place ; 1x 10 place ; 1x 15 place ; + 4 ret But in 2011 they score 5&6 place at SPA ; 5 place at Monza and 5&6 place in India but those tracks match perfectly with the car all 3 are very fast tracks (if you don't believe me you can check Michael interview after Monza when he says this)
we also can check the Constructors Championship: 2010 -> till German : 132 points after German just 81 points
2011 -> till German : 78 points after German : 87 points (but Monza Spa and India match perfect with the car) so in conclusion their best part of the season is first
2012
Exactly. Thank you.spadeflush wrote:I think what Cocles means by 2011 is that they maintained the gap with the front runners wrt the speed of the car. They started the season arnd 1.5 seconds behind and ended with approximately the same gap. Even though they stopped the development of the W02 mid season they found some speed by just understanding the W02 better.
all teams stopped the development because of new regulations for 2012 and because Red Bull wins championship flawless. And i still can't believe how they failed with w03Cocles wrote:Exactly. Thank you.spadeflush wrote:I think what Cocles means by 2011 is that they maintained the gap with the front runners wrt the speed of the car. They started the season arnd 1.5 seconds behind and ended with approximately the same gap. Even though they stopped the development of the W02 mid season they found some speed by just understanding the W02 better.
reliability 0 and development 0. For a team like Mercedes it's a huge shame to come after 13 races with a huge packet of updates and be even slower than before and the best example is Lotus after they put coanda on car Kimi win his first race when Mercedes can't score 5 races in row Heh, so now that the W02 no longer supports your narrative, you switch back to completely focusing on the W03. You then laud Lotus for their 2012 season, while conveniently ignoring that their 2011 car fell backwards just as badly as the W03. I'm sorry the W04 doesn't suck, so you're forced to beat a dead horse with Merc's previous cars. You're writing the same post over and over. Let's all agree to disagree and move on to 2013! Thanks.clipsy1H wrote: all teams stopped the development because of new regulations for 2012 and because Red Bull wins championship flawless. And i still can't believe how they failed with w03
I can't think the continual dropping of development of the current car to focus on next year cycle is sustainable for many reasons. Somebody somewhere is going to ask the obvious question, what's the point in spending x millions developing a racing car for 5 races? How about we just save the x million and not bother?wunderkind wrote: I think Brawn will have to continue to develop the W04 throughout the season because his position very much depends on the success of 2013.
I think Brawn will only throw in the towel if the W04 turns out to be some way off the Red-Bull, Ferrari, Lotus, and McLaren by the fourth or fifth race this season. Then he will have no choice but to focus on the W05. But I think this is highly unlikely. The W04 looks good out of the box and I'm sure Geoff Willis and Mike Elliott are working hard on the next big aero update.