2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

[Websta]

Logic and Sportsmanship without double standard:

Red Bull does not tell Webber to let Vettel pass. Red Bull does not tell Vettel to let Webber Pass. Correct?

Correct.

Therefor Red Bull does not tell Vettel to not Pass Webber.

There is no implication here. Logic failure.

My sides


sorry, but that was some spectacular logic

edit: quote added

[myurr]

Logic and Sportsmanship without double standard:

Red Bull does not tell Webber to let Vettel pass. Red Bull does not tell Vettel to let Webber Pass. Correct?
Therefor Red Bull does not tell Vettel to not Pass Webber.
Result: The faster driver wins.

But that's not what happened. Red Bull told Webber that Vettel would not pass, to turn his engine down, and put him on the hard tyres to run conservatively to the end. Apparently he was told TWICE that Vettel would not attack. Vettel was told not to pass, to maintain the gap. He ignored those orders, attacked, got alongside, and put Webber in a situation where he could defend and probably crash or let him go. Webber let him go and brought the car home. Vettel then lied about knowing about the team orders.

[myurr]

Had Vettel never benefitted from a team order then you'd have more of a case. As it is both you and he are the hypocrites for defending team orders when they benefit Vettel but crying when he's called out for ignoring them and then lying about it.

Beyond all help and reason.

Pot meet kettle.

[iotar__]

Vettel - Webber situation is simply a joke. So why didn't Red Bull liars order Vettel to give back positions heh? Now they're trying to sell it as something unfortunate? How much bullshit can they get away with. They know what's going on within this pathetic team and acting like some virgins now? "No rewind button". Well, yeah and dooh. Apologies? PR stunt, nothing more nothing less.

BTW imagine the screech of bigots and hypocrites also known as F1 fans and journalists if it was Alonso-Massa in place of Merc dirvers? Imagine that. Good, old "pure racing" for you. Brundle wouldn't shut up for 10 minutes dissecting all the psychological effects it has on a driver and how team's hierarchy works.

[Dragonfly]

Interesting Webber was declared a hero when he ignored team orders at Silverstone. Vettel fought his position in a close battle against severely defending teammate. So get over it.

[MWcrazyhorse]

Logic and Sportsmanship without double standard:

Red Bull does not tell Webber to let Vettel pass. Red Bull does not tell Vettel to let Webber Pass. Correct?

Correct.

Therefor Red Bull does not tell Vettel to not Pass Webber.

There is no implication here. Logic failure.

The implication is Red Bull does not tell the drivers where to finish.

[langwadt]

Potential for incredible race between Mercedes and RB, ruined by stupid tyres. Horrible race.

...and excessive fuel consumption for the Mercs!

impossible to tell, they could just as well have had less fuel at the start thinking the track would stay wet longer or rain later in the race

[ChrisF1]

Re Webber squeezing Vettel against the pitwall.

When Vettel went to the right hand side of Webber, there was a car and a half, if not 1 and 3/4 gap for him to drive through. Was it not Senna who said if you don't go for a gap then you aren't a racing driver?

Webber closed that gap to a cars width and a few inches, it was no different to Schumacher and Barichello.

[MWcrazyhorse]

Interesting Webber was declared a hero when he ignored team orders at Silverstone. Vettel fought his position in a close battle against severely defending teammate. So get over it.

Yes the double standards here of some are very clear.

What part of NO TEAM ORDER does one not understand?

[Websta]

Interesting Webber was declared a hero when he ignored team orders at Silverstone. Vettel fought his position in a close battle against severely defending teammate. So get over it.

There are two big differences:

1. Webber's compliance with the team orders in Silverstone make Vettel's lack of compliance here much harder to swallow.

2. The gap between Webber and Vettel here which put Vettel in the position to overtake appears to be artificial given that they told Webber to slow down etc. There is more to it than that, but at the moment that is why everyone is not happy about it.

[myurr]

Interesting Webber was declared a hero when he ignored team orders at Silverstone. Vettel fought his position in a close battle against severely defending teammate. So get over it.

If he knew he was going to have to fight would Webber have been on the prime tyres for that final stint? Would he have been able to pull out of the DRS zone had he not been reassured that Vettel would not attack again? It's not as clear cut as you make out.

[RB7ate9]

Interesting Webber was declared a hero when he ignored team orders at Silverstone. Vettel fought his position in a close battle against severely defending teammate. So get over it.

The difference was that, by Silverstone, Vettel had won 6 grand prix. This is the start of the year where every point matters, and if Webber trusts his team when they tell him to tune down his engine in P1, and then gets it taken away by his teammate that IGNORES the team? What is Webber to do now? Who can he trust?

It seems more and more like no one.

[beelsebob]

Logic and Sportsmanship without double standard:

Red Bull does not tell Webber to let Vettel pass. Red Bull does not tell Vettel to let Webber Pass. Correct?

Correct.

Therefor Red Bull does not tell Vettel to not Pass Webber.

There is no implication here. Logic failure.

The implication is Red Bull does not tell the drivers where to finish.

And the point is that Red bull not telling either driver let the other pass does not imply that they don't say to not pass the team mate. As today's race neatly demonstrated, when they did exactly that.

Your logic was faulty. Deal with it.

[RB7ate9]

Logic and Sportsmanship without double standard:

Red Bull does not tell Webber to let Vettel pass. Red Bull does not tell Vettel to let Webber Pass. Correct?

Correct.

Therefor Red Bull does not tell Vettel to not Pass Webber.

There is no implication here. Logic failure.

The implication is Red Bull does not tell the drivers where to finish.

According to the rumors around the interwebs, "code Multi-21" means exactly that the number 2 car finishes ahead of the number 1 car. That is how they were told to finish.

[SilverArrow10]

Watching Ted's Notebook. i really want to see this press conference just to see what Lewis and the Redbull guys say