2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

[ringo]

Compare that to Hamilton vs Rosberg; it would have been much more acceptable when Rosberg ignored orders because Rosberg infact spared his fuel load earlier on. The advantage he had was because he simply drove better then Hamilton. Still he followed orders. Very happy that Lewis inmediately said on the podium that Nico should have been there instead of him.

Also note how Vettel very arrogantly demanded that Webber should let him pass. Spoiled brat... .

I don't think Rosberg had more fuel at all. He was driving harder overall.
He had 3 gos at Lewis and Lewis took back the spot. If he kept on doing that, then both cars would have used up too much fuel.

His pace was genuinly just as quick as hamilton, so i dont think he save more fuel. If anything he may have started with a little more.
Him passing Lewis would not have been the end the story though. I feel Lewis would have to be told to hold back and let Nico take third because of the fuel situation. Then it would be quite possible that Nico would be in the same situation and we have a visious cylce of racing.
Brawn was right to step in after Nico failed to capitalize three times. And i wouldnt mind if Nico got third, but i don't feel so bad seeing the situation with the fuel and also the fact that Nico couldnt break away from Lewis thrice.

[Juzh]

If you only look at MW, that might be okay, but ordering MW to drive to a delta, meaning SV is stuck behind him getting caught by HAM is like a punch in the face.

Had MW driven quicker, SV would not have asked for a pass and would not have been caught by HAM, easy as that....RedBull risked a 1-2 by putting MW's delta too low for SV and HAM

THIS!

[myurr]

If you only look at MW, that might be okay, but ordering MW to drive to a delta, meaning SV is stuck behind him getting caught by HAM is like a punch in the face.

Had MW driven quicker, SV would not have asked for a pass and would not have been caught by HAM, easy as that....RedBull risked a 1-2 by putting MW's delta too low for SV and HAM

How quickly was HAM catching them and what was the gap? Don't want to call you a liar but at the time the Red Bulls had a big lead and were lapping quicker than the Mercedes behind them.

[wunderkind]

I look forward to the day Alonso and Vettel are teammates!

[turbof1]

I don't even think we can speak in terms of team orders, but more of team strategy. Vettel clearly ignored it for his own selfish needs. Ultimately, the team can pay the price for that one. Next time Webber might be doing the same. If they do that a whole season long it'll end up 100% guaranteed in tears.

Or how I want to use the Prisoner's Dilemma for this, but can't due no table function.

[myurr]

I don't even think we can speak in terms of team orders, but more of team strategy. Vettel clearly ignored it for his own selfish needs. Ultimately, the team can pay the price for that one. Next time Webber might be doing the same. If they do that a whole season long it'll end up 100% guaranteed in tears.

Or how I want to use the Prisoner's Dilemma for this, but can't due no table function.

This could well end up being like 2007 at McLaren, where Alonso and Hamilton squabbled and ended up throwing the championship away. Let's hope

[Juzh]

How quickly was HAM catching them and what was the gap? Don't want to call you a liar but at the time the Red Bulls had a big lead and were lapping quicker than the Mercedes behind them.

Completely wrong. Web pushed Seb into ham's drs and that's why vettel told his team to tell mark to either get out of the way or pick up the pace, which he then did.

[GrizzleBoy]

Compare that to Hamilton vs Rosberg; it would have been much more acceptable when Rosberg ignored orders because Rosberg infact spared his fuel load earlier on. The advantage he had was because he simply drove better then Hamilton. Still he followed orders. Very happy that Lewis inmediately said on the podium that Nico should have been there instead of him.

Also note how Vettel very arrogantly demanded that Webber should let him pass. Spoiled brat... .

I don't think Rosberg had more fuel at all. He was driving harder overall.
He had 3 gos at Lewis and Lewis took back the spot. If he kept on doing that, then both cars would have used up too much fuel.

His pace was genuinly just as quick as hamilton, so i dont think he save more fuel. If anything he may have started with a little more.
Him passing Lewis would not have been the end the story though. I feel Lewis would have to be told to hold back and let Nico take third because of the fuel situation. Then it would be quite possible that Nico would be in the same situation and we have a visious cylce of racing.
Brawn was right to step in after Nico failed to capitalize three times. And i wouldnt mind if Nico got third, but i don't feel so bad seeing the situation with the fuel and also the fact that Nico couldnt break away from Lewis thrice.

Maybe.

The Mercs were obviously free to race each other for quite a number of laps and were constantly switching places.

I guess the problem was that if they kept racing each other, fuel, tyres and accidents could become issues and the team as a whole had literally nothing to gain from the racing.

[Traction]

Clearly a d*ck move by Vettel. Fighting for positions is one thing, but if:

1. You and your teammate are ordered to drive for a delta time
2. Your teammate follows this
2. You know that your teammate has to drive a delta

and you then ignore that what is asked of you, you are a really sad, sad person. It would be the same like asking both of them to race eachother in Caterhams but Vettel brings a Red Bull instead. And he does not genuinly admitt he was wrong; he made a confession which was forced by the team itself.

Compare that to Hamilton vs Rosberg; it would have been much more acceptable when Rosberg ignored orders because Rosberg infact spared his fuel load earlier on. The advantage he had was because he simply drove better then Hamilton. Still he followed orders. Very happy that Lewis inmediately said on the podium that Nico should have been there instead of him.

Also note how Vettel very arrogantly demanded that Webber should let him pass. Spoiled brat... .

What's telling, and neatly illustrates what the drivers really felt about the situation, was the difference between Hamilton and Vettel when they first got out of the cars. Vettel went through his usual celebrations, giving it the finger as he's number 1, an' all that rubbish. Hamilton got out of the car, went straight over to Nico without celebrating, and gave him a hug.

Night and day difference in attitude and respect.

Like the respect LH showed when he lied to the whole racing fraternity and fans in one of the biggest scandals to hit F1? Please ...everybody at some point tries to BS their way out of a situation...Seb is no different.do I condone that he lied ...no...does it leave a bit of a bad taste as a fan...yes...will I continue to support him....absolutely as did all LH fans after his deciet and betrayal. In the race at least Seb, even though he went against team orders actually fought for his position. Did Hamilton? No...he was handed a podium...you pretty quick to forget about that. If he was such a super hero he would have let Nico through during the race knowing he was a lot slower that Nico and that Nico was in a better position to challenge the RBs if they screwed up. but he didn't so don't give us that rubbish about attitude and respect. They all want to win as much as the next guy and will do a lot to get it.

[turbof1]

Like the respect LH showed when he lied to the whole racing fraternity and fans in one of the biggest scandals to hit F1? Please ...everybody at some point tries to BS their way out of a situation...Seb is no different.do I condone that he lied ...no...does it leave a bit of a bad taste as a fan...yes...will I continue to support him....absolutely as did all LH fans after his deciet and betrayal. In the race at least Seb, even though he went against team orders actually fought for his position. Did Hamilton? No...he was handed a podium...you pretty quick to forget about that. If he was such a super hero he would have let Nico through during the race knowing he was a lot slower that Nico and that Nico was in a better position to challenge the RBs if they screwed up. but he didn't so don't give us that rubbish about attitude and respect. They all want to win as much as the next guy and will do a lot to get it.

They all want to win, yes. Now tell me, do you want to win with equal weapons or do you want to win with that extra dagger you hide under your belt?

[fritticaldi]

Another brilliant decision by Ferrari pit-wall . Keep Alonso out with damaged front wing. Stefano Domenicalli should be fired
for incompetance. This ill fated decision could have had worse consequences like flying off and hitting another driver or spectator.

[Traction]

Like the respect LH showed when he lied to the whole racing fraternity and fans in one of the biggest scandals to hit F1? Please ...everybody at some point tries to BS their way out of a situation...Seb is no different.do I condone that he lied ...no...does it leave a bit of a bad taste as a fan...yes...will I continue to support him....absolutely as did all LH fans after his deciet and betrayal. In the race at least Seb, even though he went against team orders actually fought for his position. Did Hamilton? No...he was handed a podium...you pretty quick to forget about that. If he was such a super hero he would have let Nico through during the race knowing he was a lot slower that Nico and that Nico was in a better position to challenge the RBs if they screwed up. but he didn't so don't give us that rubbish about attitude and respect. They all want to win as much as the next guy and will do a lot to get it.

They all want to win, yes. Now tell me, do you want to win with equal weapons or do you want to win with that extra dagger you hide under your belt?

Oh please..don't give me that rubbish. MW is no rookie..he new what Seb was up to and had plenty time to react to Sebs attack. It's not like Mark was surprised by Seb jumping out of a bush..he saw him chasing him down from a mile away..did nothing and the. Claims he wasn't racing anymore at that stage...he sounds like a 9 year old who loses a race and then claims yeah well you only won because I stopped racing..

[Kiril Varbanov]

In HD: (sorry for the content, but Mark Webber is the producer):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbb3tYcyRvw[/youtube]

[spadeflush]

Sorry I jumped a few pages so this might ve been discussed but shouldnt rosberg have gone past hamilton in the 2nd DRS zone instead of the first? Hamilton got him back 3 times in the second zone. This whole stay in position thing might not have happened had he overtaken hamilton on the main straight and then pulled away if he was indeed faster.

[henra]

If you only look at MW, that might be okay, but ordering MW to drive to a delta, meaning SV is stuck behind him getting caught by HAM is like a punch in the face.

Had MW driven quicker, SV would not have asked for a pass and would not have been caught by HAM, easy as that....RedBull risked a 1-2 by putting MW's delta too low for SV and HAM

How quickly was HAM catching them and what was the gap? Don't want to call you a liar but at the time the Red Bulls had a big lead and were lapping quicker than the Mercedes behind them.

Honest question:
Did you watch the race?
If yes you should have seen the scene @mandrake is referring to.
It was very clear to see that the result of MW slowing down was SV getting into hot water. LH was getting into DRS distance.

I don't know whether that was MW's idea or the one of the Team but for sure it was not a good idea at least from a Team perspective. Therefore I'm not 100% convinced it was the Team's idea. This also fits to a long history of 'niceties' between MW and SV. In the past they have beeen among the least if not the least cooperative Team Mates in the whole field.
Edit: I'm not aware of any other driver who fights so hard against SV as MW does. At the same time MW often doesn't seem to fight equally hard against other drivers in the field.
This just adds another chapter and might also be a bit of an explanation for that not really fair maneuver of SV.