2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

[Juzh]

Looking at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=082KFM4zpI0 Seb's overtake on the pit straight looks exceedingly like it was initiated outside the white lines (although admittedly completed on the pit lane).

It wasn't. 2 wheel on the track.

[Sombrero]

webber: 'obviously all the leaders are driving very slow to save the tyres'.

FiA F-1 Taxi Drivers Worldschampionship ! Thank You Pirelli...

[fiohaa]

the irony also, which is hilarious, is they are trying to make the racing more unpredictable with the tyres, so you're not exactly sure whats going to happen until the last 10 laps or so - fair enough - (for those a fan of that) - and then teams say 'No, can't race anymore'

lol - so.....you're back to square one again.

Also - Alonso - he is too old and past it clearly. they need to give a new young driver a chance. (said sarcastically)

I cannot think of a race which demonstrated just how unimportant the driver is now in F1 than today.

[i70q7m7ghw]

My 2 cents regarding the Vettel incident; please feel free to disagree.

Firstly, team orders are ridiculous.
Secondly, I might tend to accept them if there is a clear No.1, fighting for championship towards the end of the season. This is just the second race and both drivers deserve the chance to win the race. Who knows it might prove costly at the end of the season for Seb. What if he loses by 2 or 3 points in the end?

Thirdly, it would be good for the sport if there were no team orders and breaking the rules is one way of changing the rules. If everybody starts disobeying team order (Not for the sake of doing it but to show that everybody wants a shot at the glory), only then team managements would start thinking from a driver's point of view.

I'm not a Vettel fan; in fact, I dislike him. But today, I'm completely with him.

It wasn't so much about team orders for no overtaking. Both drivers were told to save tyres and adjust the engine mix to fuel save and driver to a lap delta. Vettel did not do that when told, and used everything at his disposal to overtake his team mate, who WAS driving to a lap delta, in fuel save mode, saving tyres. Once Vettel had gapped his team mate, he then drove the lap delta his engineer gave him. As Damon Hill put it after, he took the view "possession is nine tenths of the law", steal the win from his team mate and apologise later, it's still a win.

Didn't he prove in the end that pushing hard for a few laps hasn't really robbed him of the win at the end? Its not like he's disobeyed to take the tires to limit all the way.

If saving tyres and fuel was the real motto behind that order, I'd say Vettel is all the more right. Well, all you want me to do is save the tires and bring the car home; and I reply, well I can do that and plus get a win for me. Win-win situation... So, what's wrong?

Because Webber was in fuel save mode, a physical button on the steering wheel that slows the car down. It wasn't an even fight. It's like having a fast draw but I shot you before anyone says draw.

If you want to believe Vettel was in the right then you do so. But the facts are that both drivers were told to drive to a delta time and put the car in to a lean engine mix to save fuel. Webber did what he was instructed to do, but Vettel did not and used the opportunity to overtake his team mate.

There's nothing wrong with any of that by the way, apart from the fact he blatantly lied about doing it.

The other issue here is a lot of you are confusing an instruction from a race engineer with team orders. If you blur that line, where does it end?

ENGINEER: "Box this lap please"
DRIVER: "Er no. I don't follow team orders"

2 laps later the drivers slides off the race track on knackered tyres

[rssh]

I think all this thing come down to the tyres Pirelli shouldn't have made the 2013 tyre more softer they could have just increased the operating temp of these tyres so that the drivers can push the car . And seriously a F1 car driving at 80% potential is ridiculous considering that at many circuits the top 8 teams are covered by less than 4% (or even lesser)of there fastest laps in qualy . Now I understand why SCHUMI didn't like racing anymore ,just look at the on board of WEB & VET through turn 5-6 and 7-8 high speed turns they were literally touching the throttle so that the balloon tyres don't burst . Rocky even reminded SEB that he is way faster in high speed corners and need to coast on them .

Also today the temperature of the circuit was comparatively lower than on FP1 and still it was a 4 stop race . What would have happened if it was 40 degree track temperature ?

Pirelli we want Canada 2010 race but with tyres on which the driver can still push before the cliff in high speed corners (a tough ask I know).

[Raptor22]

If Webber was so much much slower, why did Vettel struggle to overtake? Maybe because he was in fuel save mode too but as not told he could not attack

[Just_a_fan]

Webber will get the last laugh if it comes down to him being asked to pull over later in the season. If Vettel needs Webber's help for the title then Vettel will find himself alone. Indeed, I think Webber will probably drive in to Vettel rather than let him by next time.

Vettel has shown himself to be like a footballer - he knows what ever he does the team will support him regardless. Sure he's a racer but he is an employee of Red Bull above that. His employer told him to X and he did Y. If Red Bull have any balls (I don't think the managment does) they'll publically admonish him.

[radosav]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJrctaOr ... detailpage[/youtube]

[FW17]

Because Webber was in fuel save mode, a physical button on the steering wheel that slows the car down. It wasn't an even fight. It's like having a fast draw but I shot you before anyone says draw.

o

The physical button could have easily turned back to a previous setting and pulled away after the first attack. The problem was that his brain had gone to fuel saving mode too

[BorisTheBlade]

Sorry I jumped a few pages so this might ve been discussed but shouldnt rosberg have gone past hamilton in the 2nd DRS zone instead of the first? Hamilton got him back 3 times in the second zone. This whole stay in position thing might not have happened had he overtaken hamilton on the main straight and then pulled away if he was indeed faster.

Toto Wolff said at RTL that they were doing that in order to catch up to the RBRs. Just the same tatics they are doing at cycling as well.

[OppositeLock]

You can't argue with a fanboi. Fan is short for fanatic. "a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal". They are out in force on the F1 message boards today with their blinders on tight.
It was an entertaining race. I've revised my opinion of certain drivers accordingly.

[Shakeman]

webber: 'obviously all the leaders are driving very slow to save the tyres'.

FiA F-1 Taxi Drivers Worldschampionship ! Thank You Pirelli...

Pirelli are not to blame are they. They have delivered the tyres they were asked to deliver.

The alternative is 1 stop tyres and a procession unless you think Bernie's shortcut and sprinklers ideas are goers?

[Steven]

I'm amazed by what is being shouted here by some members, so here are the FACTS. Posts ignoring these from here on will simply be deleted, without further notice.

- Webber drove to target laptimes asked by his engineer. Vettel believed this was too slow and said to his engineer "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way". The team replied it was just halfway in the race.
- After the final stop, both drivers were said through the radio (the message to Vettel was broadcast for everyone) to keep strategy "multi21".
- Webber turned down his engine as requested and was told Vettel would not pass
- Vettel ignored the"multi21" order/request and kept pushing to get Webber
- Webber then asked his team again what was the situation, noting that Vettel was closing in on him. He was told again that positions would be maintained (and the team still believed it would happen this way)
- Vettel attacks and passes Webber, displeasing Newey and Horner on the pitlane. Horner said after the race "Vettel took it in his own hands".
- Vettel went on to explain in different way, going from "it was not intentional" to "if I knew it would end like this I would not have taken so much risk to pass Mark".
- Horner also said to BBC sport after the race that "Vettel's action are not acceptable".

Note that this is not my opinion, but the facts as they happened. There's no point in arguing those, and as mentioned, posts neglecting these facts will be removed.

[Mandrake]

Additional question: Why was Webber very strong when Vettel tried to pass him several times? He stayed with Vettel for 2 laps and it looked as if that fight would go on up to the end. Then suddenly Vettel could get away to a lead of 6 seconds.

Does not look like Webber was on fuel saving mode from the beginning.....more like he backed up later as soon as he saw he cannot get SV again,

[fiohaa]

You can't argue with a fanboi. Fan is short for fanatic. "a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal". They are out in force on the F1 message boards today with their blinders on tight.
It was an entertaining race. I've revised my opinion of certain drivers accordingly.

it was an entertaining spectacle. wasn't a race.
as a bit of tv and drama it was actually interesting, but it certainly wasn't motor racing.