2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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Phillyred
Phillyred
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Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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Love him or hate him- Vettel was the only real race car driver on the podium today. Yes, he disobeyed team orders blatantly and maybe he think's he can get away with it because of his 3 WDCs, but he didn't fall prey to team orders. However, I'm sure he'd be pissed if the situation was reversed between him and Webber.

On a side note- as much as tire degradation and maintenance has made the last few years of F1 interesting I think it has ultimately taken away from what racing is really about.. Yes, the goal is to win ultimately, but it seems being faster than everyone else for 2hrs isn't what F1 is about these days. Qualifying has been more interesting/exciting lately. Perhaps we should award points pre-race for quali position.

fiohaa
fiohaa
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Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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Shakeman wrote:
Sombrero wrote:
fiohaa wrote:webber: 'obviously all the leaders are driving very slow to save the tyres'.
FiA F-1 Taxi Drivers Worldschampionship ! Thank You Pirelli...
Pirelli are not to blame are they. They have delivered the tyres they were asked to deliver.

The alternative is 1 stop tyres and a procession unless you think Bernie's shortcut and sprinklers ideas are goers?
why would it be a procession when there's DRS?

MWcrazyhorse
MWcrazyhorse
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013, 12:32

Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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Notice how virtually every Vettel hater uses somewhere in their language "cunt, cheater, dick etc. etc."
Ad hominem attacks and foul language that can be dismissed as such.

st99
st99
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013, 18:58

Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2rJKE-6A74[/youtube]

Mark Webber had a different opinion on TO back then...

He says that he would never give up a GP win, so did he really expect Vettel to do it? I don't think so.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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It was surely an entertaining race by the main pretenders.

Alonso screwed up by running into Vettel and then Ferrari had an unexplainable brain failure to let him go by the box with a front wing that had cleanly broken off one main strut. I could not believe my eyes when I saw that. Didn't they tell him or did Alonso simply not see the damage and disbelieved the team telling him to box? Anyway, it was an unbelievable screw up and Alonso will rue the points he threw away today with that double error.

Hamilton boxed at his old team's garage while his girl friend watched in disbelieve from the silver green box. That was very funny. Perhaps Hamilton lost exactly the time that he would have needed to stay in front of Rosberg without team orders. Again I could not believe my eyes when Rosberg made no attempt to pass Hamilton on the last lap. He had enough fuel to do so and the team order in this case was an unfair advantage for Hamilton. Lewis even thought himself that it was and said it on the podium.

The Red Bull team order story was just another illustration of how both their drivers are not reliable when it comes to team orders. They have often tried to slow Vettel down and prevent him from taking fastest laps when he was leading a race in the closing stages. He typically gives a flying eff about such calls. But this time he was not only up against his team but publicly against his team mate who traditionally goes very well in Sepang. Although for the championship it may have been a bold move to secure the additional points Seb may find himself in a position where his team mate will not give him support in crucial situations in the future. I'm curious if they will address this situation later in the season if an opportunity arises to give the race win back to Webber. Vettel very publicly showed that he can be as selfish as any other man out there. Montezemolo will have thought that the move was worthy of a Ferrari #1 driver.

The other thing that was almost unbelievable was the tyre change screw ups at Force India. I don't know how many minutes the FI drivers lost today in a race that both could well have ended in the points. A day from hell for FI.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

komninosm
komninosm
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Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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myurr wrote:What's telling, and neatly illustrates what the drivers really felt about the situation, was the difference between Hamilton and Vettel when they first got out of the cars. Vettel went through his usual celebrations, giving it the finger as he's number 1, an' all that rubbish. Hamilton got out of the car, went straight over to Nico without celebrating, and gave him a hug.

Night and day difference in attitude and respect.
Yeah, but can you imagine Vettel going to Webber and giving him a hug? That would end in blows, or at least Massa-antics. :lol:
fiohaa wrote:why would it be a procession when there's DRS?
Exactly. 4 pit stops is too much. (and bring back refueling! I just had to sneak that in ;p)
Mandrake wrote:Additional question: Why was Webber very strong when Vettel tried to pass him several times? He stayed with Vettel for 2 laps and it looked as if that fight would go on up to the end. Then suddenly Vettel could get away to a lead of 6 seconds.

Does not look like Webber was on fuel saving mode from the beginning.....more like he backed up later as soon as he saw he cannot get SV again,
That's probably because when Vettel passed him Mark started pushing for a bit, racer reflex you might call it. Also the DRS probably helped him maintain contact easily and once that was lost he fell behind fast. That's my guess. Also, team orders.
Last edited by komninosm on 24 Mar 2013, 19:10, edited 1 time in total.

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
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Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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If Lewis had been told to drive to certain deltas the whole race which resulted in him hardly having enough fuel to finish the race without crawling, wouldn't Nico also effectively have won third through team orders of a different kind?

Those orders being to tell Lewis to drive in a way that caused him to be out of juice and vulnerable to his team mate.

Thoughts?

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dren
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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Tomba wrote:I'm amazed by what is being shouted here by some members, so here are the FACTS. Posts ignoring these from here on will simply be deleted, without further notice.

- Webber drove to target laptimes asked by his engineer. Vettel believed this was too slow and said to his engineer "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way". The team replied it was just halfway in the race.
- After the final stop, both drivers were said through the radio (the message to Vettel was broadcast for everyone) to keep strategy "multi21", meaning car 2 stays ahead of car 1
- Webber turned down his engine as requested and was told Vettel would not pass
- Vettel ignored the"multi21" order/request and kept pushing to get Webber
- Webber then asked his team again what was the situation, noting that Vettel was closing in on him. He was told again that positions would be maintained (and the team still believed it would happen this way)
- Vettel attacks and passes Webber, displeasing Newey and Horner on the pitlane. Horner said after the race "Vettel took it in his own hands".
- Vettel went on to explain in different way, going from "it was not intentional" to "if I knew it would end like this I would not have taken so much risk to pass Mark".

Note that this is not my opinion, but the facts as they happened. There's no point in arguing those, and as mentioned, posts neglecting these facts will be removed.
Is it a fact that multi21 means what you stated or is it engine mapping?
Honda!

fiohaa
fiohaa
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Joined: 19 Apr 2012, 21:18

Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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Shakeman wrote:
Sombrero wrote:
fiohaa wrote:webber: 'obviously all the leaders are driving very slow to save the tyres'.
FiA F-1 Taxi Drivers Worldschampionship ! Thank You Pirelli...
Pirelli are not to blame are they. They have delivered the tyres they were asked to deliver.

The alternative is 1 stop tyres and a procession unless you think Bernie's shortcut and sprinklers ideas are goers?
also how was it not a procession today, in the phases leading up to the pitstops?
all the drivers were holding station.

Webber said himself on the podium 'obviously all the leaders are driving very slow to save the tyres'

MWcrazyhorse
MWcrazyhorse
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013, 12:32

Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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Tomba wrote:I'm amazed by what is being shouted here by some members, so here are the FACTS. Posts ignoring these from here on will simply be deleted, without further notice.

- Webber drove to target laptimes asked by his engineer. Vettel believed this was too slow and said to his engineer "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way". The team replied it was just halfway in the race.
- After the final stop, both drivers were said through the radio (the message to Vettel was broadcast for everyone) to keep strategy "multi21", meaning car 2 stays ahead of car 1
- Webber turned down his engine as requested and was told Vettel would not pass
- Vettel ignored the"multi21" order/request and kept pushing to get Webber
- Webber then asked his team again what was the situation, noting that Vettel was closing in on him. He was told again that positions would be maintained (and the team still believed it would happen this way)
- Vettel attacks and passes Webber, displeasing Newey and Horner on the pitlane. Horner said after the race "Vettel took it in his own hands".
- Vettel went on to explain in different way, going from "it was not intentional" to "if I knew it would end like this I would not have taken so much risk to pass Mark".

Note that this is not my opinion, but the facts as they happened. There's no point in arguing those, and as mentioned, posts neglecting these facts will be removed.
-You might want to include that Webber fought for the position nearly slamming Vettel into the Wall at high speed.

-Vettel made several apologies stating both he apologisez and there was said team order in place, -

-,-but, and here seems to be the reason for some of the confusion, I'd like to hear that radio call stating multi 21 to Vettel explicitly. It seems this was a general rule thought of long before the race. It applied there and Vettel didn't realize it, thinking he was just to look after tires and motor in general, but not that he must not overtake.
Facts mean nothing when selected and not in full context.

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Steven
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Joined: 19 Aug 2002, 18:32
Location: Belgium

Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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dren wrote:Is it a fact that multi21 means what you stated or is it engine mapping?
Indeed I stand corrected. I believed that was confirmed, but cannot find any source from the team. It may be a team order, an engine setting or a combination of both.

(I have edited my original post accordingly)

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turbof1
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Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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komninosm wrote:
myurr wrote:What's telling, and neatly illustrates what the drivers really felt about the situation, was the difference between Hamilton and Vettel when they first got out of the cars. Vettel went through his usual celebrations, giving it the finger as he's number 1, an' all that rubbish. Hamilton got out of the car, went straight over to Nico without celebrating, and gave him a hug.

Night and day difference in attitude and respect.
Yeah, but can you imagine Vettel going to Webber and giving him a hug? That would end in blows, or at least Massa-antics. :lol:
He could had been more sober about it. Remember Indianapolis 2005? Only 6 teams started that race: ferrari, and the 2 tail teams Jordan and Minardi. One of the Jordans ended up on the podium, celebrating like he drove a madning race, the best of his life... . My point being: Vettel could have been at the very least been much more sober about it.

Oh one more, the 1982 San Marino race: Pironi disobeyed Ferrari's order to hold position and took over a severely slowing down Villeneuve (who was under the impression Pironi would stick to the order). It is widely claimed that it was one of the elements that eventually resulted into Villeneuves death later on.
#AeroFrodo

Mui
Mui
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Joined: 20 Apr 2012, 15:30

Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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I was there and saw the vettel-webber pass and it was spectacular but after reading how it came to be it does leave a bad taste in my mouth. Whatever, at the time it did provide a lot of entertainment for fans at the track. A couple of things I noticed while watching.

1. Grosjean takes a much tighter line into the first corner while Massa takes a wider line.

2. Turn 2 is an off - camber turn. I guess that's why in most cases when 2 cars enter turn 1 the one on the outside wins the next corner. The off camber has less of an effect when taking a tighter line??

3. McLaren were really bad at turn 1. They could only put the power down around the end (Third last inside red painted Kerb) of turn 1. Red bull and Massa were able to put the power down at the middle ( 7th Last inside red painted kerb).

4. I really enjoyed the battle between the Marussia and Caterham. They might be slow but I thought they gave the most action albeit not the most spectacular. I'm starting to like Marussia.

5. Its really sad to see any driver retire from a race, even more so when its your favourite racer especially when it happens in the first few laps.

6. The big Screen where they show tv footage was off for the first 2/3rds of the race and we didn't have commentary. It was confusing to see who was who based on helmet colour and what strategy everyone was taking after the first round of pit stops, if I were going a second time round I would buy the headset.

7. For future reference, if anybody is going to Sepang, I'd highly recommend sitting at K1 grand stand, you get to see the first and second corners and the fourth at a distance. The only negative is that you wont be able to see some of the technical capabilities of the cars i.e fast direction changes. Positives are that you get to hear the downshift throttle changes with the occasional 'pop' most notably from the Mercedes.

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Sebp
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Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVwFaKweNpA[/youtube]

I apologize if this has already been posted.
No smartphone was involved in creating this message.

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Afterburner
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Re: 2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

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st99 wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2rJKE-6A74[/youtube]

Mark Webber had a different opinion on TO back then...

He says that he would never give up a GP win, so did he really expect Vettel to do it? I don't think so.
For sure you don't know what being polite is.