2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

[piast9]

● 22 minutes of race radio communications.

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5922/30028588.png

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1148/26495996.png
via F1 Fanatic

The radio communications at 9:12, very interesting. Vettel is told at lap 25 "3 second gap, save your tyres". The next lap he was close to Webber, more like a second or so from him. I could be wrong about the 3 second gap, it could perhaps meant his current gap towards an other driver, but I think he was by then already told to keep a gap which he blatantly ignored also then.

And at 15:15 - did Vettel cry after the reprimand from Horner?

[Nando]

"C" is "C" and "multi" is "multi". 2 different things. Otherwise both would have been marked as "multi"

Plus "C" exists only since the RB8 while "multi" was already there in the RB5.

On the first image it wasn´t that visible. Second of all you surely must see the problem here.

If the knob shows 3-4-5 and Red Bull said Multi 21 and the knob has 8 or 10 faces it would have to have increments that increase after 5 if it should have a number that says 21.

One option is that is that it´s possible to set the knob between 2 and 1.

[Lurk]

@turbo

Errr. there is only one "multi" switch on the wheel and it is octogonal. I don't think RBR counts like that: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 12, 21.
So yeah, "multi 12" and "multi 21" are code to freeze positions.

It could also be something like "multi 2" on the wheel, with the "1" belonging to a related setting, or a team demand/order/strategy.

F1 wheel is already complicated so they generally are quite explicit when they ask to do something with the wheel. Plus strategy are more "plan A", "plan B", "target +1".
Of course I can be wrong but on this one I think the simplest explanation is the best

[Huntresa]

So this car again did 1 less stop then the top teams, even if it didnt rly pay off this weekend, but 21 and 22 laps on the hard for Grosjean and Kimi, compared to Vettel and Webber doing 10 and 12 on the hards.

Wonder what kind of pace they could have had if they had been higher up at the start and not had the traffic they ended up in.

[Neno]

So this car again did 1 less stop then the top teams, even if it didnt rly pay off this weekend, but 21 and 22 laps on the hard for Grosjean and Kimi, compared to Vettel and Webber doing 10 and 12 on the hards.

Wonder what kind of pace they could have had if they had been higher up at the start and not had the traffic they ended up in.

Grosjean troubled with car more then Kimi again. He had free track in front of him most of time, but couldn't get from DRS zone of drivers behind him, this compromised Kimi also, because he was last in 4 car train, and both cars in front of him could use DRS because of Grosjean. But Kimi pace was there, when he had free track he had fastest laps in race. Too bad and unlucky weekend.

[MWcrazyhorse]

To clarify:

-Nobody, me included is disputing there was a team order that Vettel did not act upon in the understanding of the team. Set aside all sportsmanship of team order and the merits of giving it to the defending champion.

-The question is what exactly the order was and what multi 21 means. Indicated by posts above it is a setting on the steering wheel. Further if it can be mistaken as general engine and tire management by Vettel who would decide to continue racing a few laps before finish and overtake, if he has a realistic chance and tires etc. feel ok. A chance which indeed he will have when and once Webber slowed down notably, because of Webber's understanding of the order multi 21 and other, see below.

-Listening to the team radio as posted above, here again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xppm9tzXc8 there is no clear order to Vettel to not overtake, other than "this is silly Seb, come on" at 15:06, followed by "he has been told" to Webber.
Now Webber hearing "he has been told" might think he has been ordered to not overtake." Instead of "silly". Causing him to indeed slow down considerably. Seb hearing "this is silly" may think "The team will think it is silly, ofc. racing for position 1 and 2 in the team is silly from their perspective. But I am racing to win. I can overtake. I have the chance." And let's be fair Webber did still fight back hard.

In result a misunderstanding is quite probable. And seems to be the case in my humble opinion.
Leave the name calling of fanboy, fanatic, and accusing Vettel of being a liar and a cheater. Let us do the detective work and put the puzzle together first. If we can.

[SilverArrow10]

● 22 minutes of race radio communications.

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5922/30028588.png

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1148/26495996.png
via F1 Fanatic

The radio communications at 9:12, very interesting. Vettel is told at lap 25 "3 second gap, save your tyres". The next lap he was close to Webber, more like a second or so from him. I could be wrong about the 3 second gap, it could perhaps meant his current gap towards an other driver, but I think he was by then already told to keep a gap which he blatantly ignored also then.

And at 15:15 - did Vettel cry after the reprimand from Horner?

He said he was scared and had to take the line or something like that. Trying to justify the overtake me thinks

[myurr]

Okay let's start with Horner calling it deliberate: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106356

Then let's look at Rocky, his race engineer, saying "there was some explaining to do."

Then let's look at why Mark would quote a steering wheel setting at Vettel if it held no further meaning: "Multi 21 Seb... multi 21". And let's look at why Vettel didn't respond.

Then we can look at this interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lVAwoSRoMs where Vettel clearly says "I wasn't aware of it, otherwise I wouldn't take that much risk to pass someone I'm not supposed to pass", and that it was a shock when he found out after the race. Even though we'd already heard him be told that "there was some explaining to do" and after we know Horner had told him he was being silly.

Andrew Benson also writes:

The team also repeatedly warned him to maintain a gap to Webber.
While Vettel was aggressively trying to pass Webber after their final pit stops, team principal Christian Horner went on the radio to say: "Seb, this is silly."
But Vettel continued to attack and in the end Webber appeared to cede the position to the German, who passed him around the outside at Turn Four with 13 laps to go.

Finally you need to realise that the radio feed that's been posted covers a fair bit but is not comprehensive. It will only cover a small fraction of all radio messages, and doesn't include every exchange with either Red Bull driver.

[gandharva]

By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it's not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it's possible.

Ayrton Senna da Silva, † 1.5.94

.

[Owen.C93]

It will probably be 2 on one dial and 1 on the multi, easier than saying 2:1 or 2.1.

There's more parameters on the display that you can't see, adjusted by the rotary dials.

[sAx]

To clarify:



-Listening to the team radio as posted above, here again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xppm9tzXc8 there is no clear order to Vettel to not overtake, other than "this is silly Seb, come on" at 15:06, followed by "he has been told" to Webber.
....

There is also ~15:20, Rocky to Seb, "...I need you to get out of KERs pattern, get out of KERs overtake pattern, the system will take it...use KERs normally.."

[Mciracer]

[MWcrazyhorse]

To clarify:



-Listening to the team radio as posted above, here again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xppm9tzXc8 there is no clear order to Vettel to not overtake, other than "this is silly Seb, come on" at 15:06, followed by "he has been told" to Webber.
....

There is also ~15:20, Rocky to Seb, "...I need you to get out of KERs pattern, get out of KERs overtake pattern, the system will take it...use KERs normally.."

At 15:20 Vettel had allready overtaken Webber and was 2.5 seconds ahead as is visible in the tv broadcast's under bar (how do you call it? sidebar) of the driver standings.

[Sebp]

To clarify:



-Listening to the team radio as posted above, here again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xppm9tzXc8 there is no clear order to Vettel to not overtake, other than "this is silly Seb, come on" at 15:06, followed by "he has been told" to Webber.
....

There is also ~15:20, Rocky to Seb, "...I need you to get out of KERs pattern, get out of KERs overtake pattern, the system will take it...use KERs normally.."

At 15:20 Vettel had allready overtaken Webber and was 2.5 seconds ahead as is visible in the tv broadcast's under bar (how do you call it? sidebar) of the driver standings.

Picture and sound are out of sync. You can clearly see that at the end when they're already drinking champagne and the radio broadcast continues.

[Ray]

By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it's not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it's possible.

Ayrton Senna da Silva, † 1.5.94

.

Senna is dead, and Senna was famous for being a bully when he didn't get his way. Much like his teammate. This is a different era, even if we don't like it (I sure don't), and has no real validity to todays racing environment. Seb was told what to do and ignored it. He knows how Red Bull works, and it would be ridiculous to think that Seb doesn't know the standard operating procedure inside Red Bull when the race win for the team is pretty much a foregone conclusion. Feigning ignorance doesn't cut it. Seb knows, Newey knows, and Horner confirmed it multiple times in his SkyF1 interview directly after the race. Seb ignored a team order and overtook his teammate when he was told not to. They gave the same order to Webber in Silverstone and he honored it. He roughed up Seb, but when told to back off he did. Webber's body language and the tension of Newey's face told the real story.