2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

[fiohaa]

Fastest and most deserving driver in terms of race pace won. End of story. This is not about the feelings and nice behavior, it's motorsport.

you can't say if Vettels race pace was faster im afraid, due to the tires.
Mark said in the press conference, the only reason why he was driving slower was to save tyres in the middle stint, when Vettel asked on the radio to move him over.

As he said on the podium and in the press conference, they are all driving to 8/10ths due to tyres.

So with these pirellis you can never say ever that a driver won on superior pace....because all of them are driving well within their own limits.

[aral]

Well, I have not been in the previous 1000 discussions so I give my opinion.

If you want to defend Vettels attitude is your problem, the fact is that when Vettel is behind Mark something happens (Turkey 2010, yesterday) and when it is the opposite there is much less drama (apart from some tense radio messages). And this is a fact, if you don’t like you can ignore the reality but it will be there.

Oh well, good job he is usually in front!

Seriously, on the odd occasion that Webber is in front, Vettel always seems to have a problem getting by. That problem is ...Webber... who seems to be rather obstructive.

[fritticaldi]

Redemption would be Webber punting out Vettel at the start of next race making both Red bulls DNF. Excellent payback to Red Bull racing and Spoiled Brat Vettel. Go ahead do it Mark.

[henra]

Redemption would be Webber punting out Vettel at the start of next race making both Red bulls DNF. Excellent payback to Red Bull racing and Spoiled Brat Vettel. Go ahead do it Mark.

I would be really curious to know what some people here are smoking

[Traction]

It's unbelievable how people are ready to sacrifice the joy and excitement of watching real racing (if they ever feel such excitement that is) only to satisfy their hatred towards a driver.

This is an important point. My beef with Vettel isn't that he raced - I wish there were no team orders. For me it's two things. 1) Hypocrisy in that he is happy to benefit from team orders but won't pay it back when they are working against him, and 2) lying about it after the event.

An extension of the first point is that this shows it's not one mans principled stand against team orders, it's instead an attitude that he's somehow owed or deserves all the help from the team in all circumstances. He also didn't have the decency to declare he was ignoring the teams instructions which led to the team reassuring Webber that Vettel's attack was being called off. That meant it wasn't even a fair fight, again this is not something to be celebrated.

So by all means ban team orders, decry their use, but that has to be consistent not a pick'n'mix depending on which driver is benefitting.

If lying is one of the major reasons for your discontent with Vettel then you must seriously despise Hamilton...but you know what...we all get over it and move on...every hero screws up at some point or other...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... -Prix.html

[sAx]

It's unbelievable how people are ready to sacrifice the joy and excitement of watching real racing (if they ever feel such excitement that is) only to satisfy their hatred towards a driver.

This is an important point. My beef with Vettel isn't that he raced - I wish there were no team orders. For me it's two things. 1) Hypocrisy in that he is happy to benefit from team orders but won't pay it back when they are working against him, and 2) lying about it after the event.

An extension of the first point is that this shows it's not one mans principled stand against team orders, it's instead an attitude that he's somehow owed or deserves all the help from the team in all circumstances. He also didn't have the decency to declare he was ignoring the teams instructions which led to the team reassuring Webber that Vettel's attack was being called off. That meant it wasn't even a fair fight, again this is not something to be celebrated.

So by all means ban team orders, decry their use, but that has to be consistent not a pick'n'mix depending on which driver is benefitting.

If lying is one of the major reasons for your discontent with Vettel then you must seriously despise Hamilton...but you know what...we all get over it and move on...every hero screws up at some point or other...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... -Prix.html

Can't be Multi21 nee MultiF1, unless we can somehow make a tenuous link to Lewis =D>

[myurr]

If lying is one of the major reasons for your discontent with Vettel then you must seriously despise Hamilton...but you know what...we all get over it and move on...every hero screws up at some point or other...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... -Prix.html

I criticised Hamilton at the time for that, but remember the media witch hunt and criticisms on here at the time for lying. Some on this board were even calling for him to have his super license revoked and to be banned for the rest of the season...

Lying is a big issue, showing no remorse is a bigger issue. For me personally Hamilton has since earned back my trust. He showed remorse at the time, issued an apology for lying, faced up to it and has since showed stronger character. He was also under instruction from the team to lie which mitigates it at least a little bit even if it doesn't excuse what he did.

Vettel has shown no remorse, has not apologised, and doesn't even sound sorry when is he apologising for his other transgressions.

But the lying is a bit of a side show. It shows his character and is reason to dislike him but isn't that important in the scheme of things. For me the hypocrisy and lack of sportsmanship is far worse, and it's not just defined by this one incident. This incident is just the latest and most publicly obvious example in a line of examples of poor character, in my opinion.

[chiral]

My problem with this is that SV gave the racing equivalent of a sucker punch to MW. He believed he was faster than webber in the middle stint and webber suddenly found a second over the next lap. SV new that webber had changed his engine mapping and took advantage of this. I think he saw red when this happened, its the start of the season he has to stamp his authority. You could tell in the way he said his "move mark over message", very dismissive.
Time will tell wether SV had in fact changed his mapping when told to or wether he turned it down once he had passed webber. If he blatantly ignored the no pass message and turned his engine down yet still made the pass, then fair enough he's a racing driver, its his job. BUT if he has kept his engine at a higher power knowing full well that webber has turned his engine down and then executed the pass then that is a completely different story and seriously calls SV's character into question.

My two cents

[strad]

Do any of you pathetic fanboys realize how ridiculous these flailing attempts at protecting your chosen idol is?
How badly you ruin the forums all over the internet?
I don't care who you pull for,,,When you have to stretch truth and dream up crazy defences you not only lose all credibility but it also reflects on your heros.
Can't you guys accept that all idols have clay feet?

[LionKing]

Well, I have not been in the previous 1000 discussions so I give my opinion.

If you want to defend Vettels attitude is your problem, the fact is that when Vettel is behind Mark something happens (Turkey 2010, yesterday) and when it is the opposite there is much less drama (apart from some tense radio messages). And this is a fact, if you don’t like you can ignore the reality but it will be there.

Oh well, good job he is usually in front!

Seriously, on the odd occasion that Webber is in front, Vettel always seems to have a problem getting by. That problem is ...Webber... who seems to be rather obstructive.

Exactly.

Didn't Webber cause 3 seperate incidents at Abu Dhabi last year??? He has one of the "widest cars" on track. At Turkey he almost put his teammates car to grass and yesterday to the wall....

[Neno]

Didn't Webber cause 3 seperate incidents at Abu Dhabi last year??? He has one of the "widest cars" on track. At Turkey he almost put his teammates car to grass and yesterday to the wall....

If you ask me Webber should in Turkey put his teammate car to grass and yesterday to the wall. Why, he should give a lesson to Vettel not too ?uck with him, specialy when team warned Vettel. It would be good lession to Vettel that Webber is not errand boy and cost of losing precious points in race should make him smarter for rest of season.

[LionKing]

Do any of you pathetic fanboys realize how ridiculous these flailing attempts at protecting your chosen idol is?
How badly you ruin the forums all over the internet?

I definitely remember one of those pathetic fanboys The hypocrite who was calling Schumacher to be a cheat while doing his utmost to exonerate his own idol's worse, premeditated cheating....

Sounds very familiar....

[zeph]

My problem with this is that SV gave the racing equivalent of a sucker punch to MW. He believed he was faster than webber in the middle stint and webber suddenly found a second over the next lap. SV new that webber had changed his engine mapping and took advantage of this. I think he saw red when this happened, its the start of the season he has to stamp his authority. You could tell in the way he said his "move mark over message", very dismissive.
Time will tell wether SV had in fact changed his mapping when told to or wether he turned it down once he had passed webber. If he blatantly ignored the no pass message and turned his engine down yet still made the pass, then fair enough he's a racing driver, its his job. BUT if he has kept his engine at a higher power knowing full well that webber has turned his engine down and then executed the pass then that is a completely different story and seriously calls SV's character into question.

This. You call it a sucker punch. I call it a bitch move.

I think Vettel WAS faster, judging from how he pulled away after the overtake. But he screwed his teammate, with nothing but 7 points at stake in round 2 of the season. There is nothing ambiguous about it, it has been confirmed by all involved (including Vettel himself and his svengali Marko) and I do not understand why people are arguing otherwise.

[Nando]

Identical stints between Rosberg and Hamilton.

[Dragonfly]

Errrm, you try and correct other people, even asking them if they watched the race, and then make the basic error of it being Vettel exiting the pits. It was actually Webber exiting the pits as the team had allowed Vettel to pit first getting the undercut.

My fault absolutely. Sorry for that.

But in essence my question remains. Why do people claim Webber was in saving mode when he did his personal best lap during that fight?