McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[turbof1]

That is the MP4-24 car, the 2009 contender.

[cossie]

u r right mp4- 24

[McG]

It's a shame that there's not much technical stuff to discuss at the moment with McLaren that we can see. Seems to be just the different suspension.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Great view of the part of the floor McLaren cut off in Malaysia


via @tgruener

[astracrazy]

That is the MP4-24 car, the 2009 contender.

easy mistake, both crap

[McMrocks]

That is the MP4-24 car, the 2009 contender.

easy mistake, both crap

high level crap. the 24 even won races.

sorry for off topic

[kalinka]

[quote="Crucial_Xtreme"]Great view of the part of the floor McLaren cut off in Malaysia

I wonder why they done that. It looks strange to me...like they spill some excess exhaust gas into the space behind the rear wheel. It could decrease drag if I learned correctly...or maybe it's again a famous " let's seal the diffusor" attempt?

[Pup]

There was a slo mo shot of the Red Bull coming out of a tight corner this weekend and at first I thought that they had a broken rear suspension because the car was moving around so much in the rear. But it was actually all in the tires - I was really surprised how much they were deforming. So the gap between the tire and the floor must be changing a good bit throughout a turn as the tires move side to side, and I'm guessing that gap has to be 'tuned' with the exhaust flow to be its most effective. Too narrow or too wide and the effect is lost. If so, then surely they've widened that gap so that the percentage change is decreased; i.e., they're choosing lower overall downforce and greater predictability over greater downforce 'peaks' and less predictability as the tires move around through the corner.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

There was a slo mo shot of the Red Bull coming out of a tight corner this weekend and at first I thought that they had a broken rear suspension because the car was moving around so much in the rear. But it was actually all in the tires - I was really surprised how much they were deforming. So the gap between the tire and the floor must be changing a good bit throughout a turn as the tires move side to side, and I'm guessing that gap has to be 'tuned' with the exhaust flow to be its most effective. Too narrow or too wide and the effect is lost. If so, then surely they've widened that gap so that the percentage change is decreased; i.e., they're choosing lower overall downforce and greater predictability over greater downforce 'peaks' and less predictability as the tires move around through the corner.

Pup I think you might be onto something here. My only question would be did McLaren bring a different floor to Malaysia? With the cut outs we see from Malaysia, I don't see that being possible on the AUS floor.


MAL


AUS

[gixxer_drew]

I get the impression that Button tries to be pretty straightforward even if he has to be careful about what he says. In the post race interview, it sounded like they had made a move in the suspension toward something to control ride heights for aero, however they found themselves bottoming hard and they needed to stiffen things up in response. That put them outside of the optimal range on the aero map. There was something to the effect that hes wondering what solutions everyone else is pursuing and seemed surprised nobody else was going through this. (Thats just my interpretation of what he said I dont recall his exact words).

From here I'm speculating and reading between the lines a little: You would be giving up aero in most of the track since you are facing competitors with other working systems to control the height of aero bits and then you give up mechanical grip to top it off. To be honest I dont see how a problem with just mechanical grip, without being a TOTAL disaster could be that much lap time for a team at that level. It would need to have an aero effect, or be an aero problem outright. I dont think you can say it is suspension OR its aero... A suspension problem is an aero problem.

To Pup's point, one thing they might not expect is the amount of deflection in the tires. If you push the ride height limit and then you have a tire that is giving up more ride than you expected under load, it could be a big problem. If your competitors are deforming their aero and you were counting on your suspension to do the job.

Also, I wondered about the early retirement in Malaysia well. Am I missing something? What the media explained didn't quite add up for me a wheel nut? Do they check the plank wear on every car? It crossed my mind after Button's comments.

[tok-tokkie]

There was a slo mo shot of the Red Bull coming out of a tight corner this weekend and at first I thought that they had a broken rear suspension because the car was moving around so much in the rear. But it was actually all in the tires - I was really surprised how much they were deforming. So the gap between the tire and the floor must be changing a good bit throughout a turn as the tires move side to side, and I'm guessing that gap has to be 'tuned' with the exhaust flow to be its most effective. Too narrow or too wide and the effect is lost. If so, then surely they've widened that gap so that the percentage change is decreased; i.e., they're choosing lower overall downforce and greater predictability over greater downforce 'peaks' and less predictability as the tires move around through the corner.

Martin Brudel commented that the rear tire on the Red Bull looked as if it might pop off the rim it was moving so much under cornering forces. I was watching on a poor internet feed but did see it after that.

[henra]

That put them outside of the optimal range on the aero map. There was something to the effect that hes wondering what solutions everyone else is pursuing and seemed surprised nobody else was going through this.

and

From here I'm speculating and reading between the lines a little: You would be giving up aero in most of the track since you are facing competitors with other working systems to control the height of aero bits and then you give up mechanical grip to top it off.

Maybe they simply went to extreme with the diffuser angle.
Has happened before in F1 history. Leads usually to nasty and unpredictable stalling of the diffuser especially in high speed turns or over bumps/curbs.
Can be mitigated by stiffening the rear suspension. By doing that you lose mechanical grip, though. could be a potential factor when looking at the car's behaviour and the comments of the drivers.
That said, there is still my slightly uneasy feeling with the somewhat bulky sidepods. A disturbed airflow to the upper side of the diffuser could also potentially contribute to a stalling problem of the diffuser.

[JimClarkFan]

There was a slo mo shot of the Red Bull coming out of a tight corner this weekend and at first I thought that they had a broken rear suspension because the car was moving around so much in the rear. But it was actually all in the tires - I was really surprised how much they were deforming. So the gap between the tire and the floor must be changing a good bit throughout a turn as the tires move side to side, and I'm guessing that gap has to be 'tuned' with the exhaust flow to be its most effective. Too narrow or too wide and the effect is lost. If so, then surely they've widened that gap so that the percentage change is decreased; i.e., they're choosing lower overall downforce and greater predictability over greater downforce 'peaks' and less predictability as the tires move around through the corner.

Pup I think you might be onto something here. My only question would be did McLaren bring a different floor to Malaysia? With the cut outs we see from Malaysia, I don't see that being possible on the AUS floor.


MAL
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGXYCmLCMAAm

AUS
http://formula1.com/wi/enlarge/sutton/2013/dms1323m

Maybe it is my bad eyesight, but I can't really see much a change?

[raymondu999]

Maybe they simply went to extreme with the diffuser angle.
Has happened before in F1 history. Leads usually to nasty and unpredictable stalling of the diffuser especially in high speed turns or over bumps/curbs.
Can be mitigated by stiffening the rear suspension. By doing that you lose mechanical grip, though. could be a potential factor when looking at the car's behaviour and the comments of the drivers.
That said, there is still my slightly uneasy feeling with the somewhat bulky sidepods. A disturbed airflow to the upper side of the diffuser could also potentially contribute to a stalling problem of the diffuser.

Wouldn't be a first for them. The MP4-25 (2010 car) the first car to have uber-stiff suspension, comes to mind. To memory, their second diffuser deck was so extreme that it had to be sprung very low to not stall - and it duly showed, in that they became rubbish when the track required bump ride and/or mechanical grip.

[Unc1e_M0nty]

There was a slo mo shot of the Red Bull coming out of a tight corner this weekend and at first I thought that they had a broken rear suspension because the car was moving around so much in the rear. But it was actually all in the tires - I was really surprised how much they were deforming. So the gap between the tire and the floor must be changing a good bit throughout a turn as the tires move side to side, and I'm guessing that gap has to be 'tuned' with the exhaust flow to be its most effective. Too narrow or too wide and the effect is lost. If so, then surely they've widened that gap so that the percentage change is decreased; i.e., they're choosing lower overall downforce and greater predictability over greater downforce 'peaks' and less predictability as the tires move around through the corner.

Martin Brudel commented that the rear tire on the Red Bull looked as if it might pop off the rim it was moving so much under cornering forces. I was watching on a poor internet feed but did see it after that.

I saw the same clip in HD and you could see the lower half of the rim prodruding under heavy load.

Seems strange to me because according to Pirelli this years tyres have much stronger side walls, running low tyre pressure maybe ?