McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[Javert]

Don't pay nothing to that article of Omnicorse

They have problems,
but the general level of the car is now only slightly behind MP4-27

They have gone for a very aggressive exhausts system,
which (I say) would have been perfect for last year rears to create downforce

Unfortunately this year tires are deforming in a way that desturbs exhausts flow
And is this the reason because Red Bull&Lotus ramp and Ferrari "higher exhaust for letting more undercut flow" are
working better

AND the system proved tremendous in horse power loss, they surely have to work that

IS TRUE that their rear works better with a low ride height, but this isn't dramatic in sense of tires eating
Button was managing the 3-stops perfectly

Front, Yes they have problems, and their problems are different from F2012 ones
But nothing that can't be solved with slight adjustment of suspension AND more front downforce

Meaning, the car was designed around LAST year tires, and would have been very effective with them
Last year fronts required LOW front downforce to work, and their end-of-year front wing with the low chassis
they had was very effective.

Now the fronts require more downforce from the front wing, AND their high chassis means they can get air
stalled. So, I think they need a completely new front wing

So, for the MP4-28 to work I think the following are musts:
1- completely new front wing
2- absolutely get more horsepower
3- find a diffuser design that works well with the other parts and is efficient
4- slightly adjust front suspension
5- find the way to remove monkey seat. this year rears don't need that little extra amount of df

[Huntresa]

5- find the way to remove monkey seat. this year rears don't need that little extra amount of df

The main idea behind the monkey seat isnt to create downforce, its to help the flow under the mainplane which i guess in it self does create downforce, but what i meant was that the monkey seat itself doesnt create enough downforce to even matter.

[Holm86]

So, for the MP4-28 to work I think the following are musts:
1- completely new front wing
2- absolutely get more horsepower
3- find a diffuser design that works well with the other parts and is efficient
4- slightly adjust front suspension
5- find the way to remove monkey seat. this year rears don't need that little extra amount of df

No what i think they need to do is:
1- Hire you
2- Pop the champagne and celebrate winning rest of the seasons races

[beelsebob]

Blech, why is this place so full of people who think they know how to design F1 cars better than professional engineers with experience, simulation, and knowledge?

[flyboy2160]

Blech, why is this place so full of people who think they know how to design F1 cars better than professional engineers with experience, simulation, and knowledge?

+10000000000000000 Bring on the ignore user function!

[yener]

Now RBR, Lotus and AMG Mercedes are warned for their "rake". The T-splitter is flexing (duh) and rumours tell that the FIA will sharpen the test of the t-splitter.
Having a t-splitter flexed means you can run more rake and keep the plank wear beneath the maximum of (2mm).

So RBR, AMG and Lotus are going to be slower and if McLaren brings in updates they will close the gap and still can fight for the championship.

[Hail22]

We shall see next weekend however I believe whoever said that Mclaren would use the 2012 Exhaust setup is onto something (I honestly felt last years Coanda exhaust executed its job beautifully), I would assume the pull-rod system will most likely be adjusted (angle etc) in order to look after the front tyres a bit more.

Note: My post is merely a thought not speculation nor rumor spreading.

[Huntresa]

We shall see next weekend however I believe whoever said that Mclaren would use the 2012 Exhaust setup is onto something (I honestly felt last years Coanda exhaust executed its job beautifully), I would assume the pull-rod system will most likely be adjusted (angle etc) in order to look after the front tyres a bit more.

Note: My post is merely a thought not speculation nor rumor spreading.

We shall see in 2 weekends, sadly.

[beelsebob]

We shall see next weekend however I believe whoever said that Mclaren would use the 2012 Exhaust setup is onto something (I honestly felt last years Coanda exhaust executed its job beautifully), I would assume the pull-rod system will most likely be adjusted (angle etc) in order to look after the front tyres a bit more.

Note: My post is merely a thought not speculation nor rumor spreading.

I find this exceedingly unlikely. Moving back to last year's exhaust concept would in turn require them to move back to last year's sidepods, which in turn affects air flow all down the car, and hence pretty much requires last year's concept and last year's car. I expect we'll see either 1) a new diffuser, or 2) new mechanical setup that allows the current diffuser to run in its required ride height. I think this, not because I think I'm smarter than engineers, but because the engineers have told us exactly what's wrong with the car, and what to expect.

[Holm86]

I believe that a new sidepod concept could be possible. This years car seems a bit fat around the cokebottle shape. This could restrict the flow over the top of the diffuser which could be why it stalls.

I dont believe it will be with new sidepod intakes and all but new shape along the cokebottle.

[turbof1]

Blech, why is this place so full of people who think they know how to design F1 cars better than professional engineers with experience, simulation, and knowledge?

It could be that he is right. After all, he only identified some problematic areas, something we all can do. He however did not said, or could tell anyway, HOW to solve those problems or what had to be done specifically. His list could be written in one simple sentence: redesign the complete car in the details.

[Pup]

Well, actually he just named everything on the car that changed from last year, and said they were problem areas. That's somewhat different from "identifying" problem areas.

[henra]

I may have misread the last two pages, but as far as I can see it, someone was suggesting that MP4-28 is running a steep angle on the kick line of the trailing edge of the diffuser?
Usually, every time when you do something, you gotta ask yourself: Why? I'm in no doubt that Mclaren aero people are aware that such sharp condition shape change would cause the usual adverse pressure gradient and will subsequently lead to airflow detachment (in theory).

It's a bit of a gamble. As long as airflow stays attached, you gain efficiency and net downforce by increasing the expansion ratio of the diffuser. As FIA regulates a lot of the dimensions of the diffuser you can increase expansion ratio mainly by going steeper. That works well to the point where the diffuser starts stalling/detaching occasionally.

There are numerous factors why a diffuser that was working fine in the wind tunnel might face stalling/detachment issues in real life.
One of these factors is flow over the diffuser/ air flow at the trailing edge.
Another might be air flow underneath the car reacting stronger to ride height deviations.
The tires might be involved as well if their flexibility causes unexpected (vertical+lateral) movements of the car in turns.

[turbof1]

Well, actually he just named everything on the car that changed from last year, and said they were problem areas. That's somewhat different from "identifying" problem areas.

I'll refrase: he basicilly only said that they have to make changes to most of the car. The current problems at mclaren obviously aren't solved at all by targetting one area. It'll take subtle changes from the front wing completely to the diffuser to solve it. We all know that, he said it, but nobody of us know what these "subtle changes" must be. Javert neither, nor did he made such claims or suggestions. Well, except nr. 5 obviously.

[bhall]

[...]

The tires might be involved as well if their flexibility causes unexpected (vertical+lateral) movements of the car in turns.

I was thinking something along those lines as well. Could the increased deformation of the sidewalls on this year's tires cause unexpected wake patterns that play hell the diffuser's efficiency? That might explain the car's better performance at lower ride heights, because, under those conditions, the exhaust can better seal off the diffuser from those effects.

That also might explain why the car's lack of pace seems to have caught the team off-guard. I imagine it's damn near impossible to model sidewall deformation in CFD.


(from Racecar Engineering, July 2012)