Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2013

[Juzh]

Yeah, he pushed him almost into the wall, which was wrong, but crucially they didn't crash and that is all that matters. Even if they meet on the track again this year, chances of them crashing this early in the season when everything is still open are pretty slim imo. Intentional ramming your teammate (or any driver) of the track would be on a different level of retardedness and would not have been taken lightly by the team or the FIA.

[turbof1]

Yeah, he pushed him almost into the wall, which was wrong, but crucially they didn't crash and that is all that matters. Even if they meet on the track again this year, chances of them crashing this early in the season when everything is still open are pretty slim imo. Intentional ramming your teammate (or any driver) of the track would be on a different level of retardedness and would not have been taken lightly by the team or the FIA.

That has become more or less the only thing they have in common anymore: they will not give one tiny bit of sh*t of what the team thinks. For the rest: yes, it would be foolish to intentionally ram your team"mate". I think both you and me can recall teammates did so more then enough in the past. To quote ayrton senna "I will go for it and he better not turn in because he’s not going to make it."

[CHT]

The man has spoken.. =D>

Mateschitz is opposed to team orders on principle and wants to see the drivers race, as befits Red Bull's sporting philosophy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22109935

[dren]

You did see what happened at malaysia right? Webber forced vettel very close to the wall. Put them in the exact same situation this weekend and I guarantee you that Vettel will have to scrape his car off the wall.

Right, because Vettel was trying to pass when he was told not to. I expect to see some crashing between the two.

[Gridlock]

Mateschitz is opposed to team orders on principle and wants to see the drivers race, as befits Red Bull's sporting philosophy.

I'm sure he likes lollipops and bunnies too, but words mean nothing and he doesn't run the team.

So lets see what happens.

[Pup]

The man has spoken.. =D>

Mateschitz is opposed to team orders on principle and wants to see the drivers race, as befits Red Bull's sporting philosophy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22109935

Well, it's sorta easy to say that you're against team orders after your drivers have told you that they won't follow them. It's a heck of a lot easier than telling the world that you've no control over your team, that's for sure.

[Juzh]

You did see what happened at malaysia right? Webber forced vettel very close to the wall. Put them in the exact same situation this weekend and I guarantee you that Vettel will have to scrape his car off the wall.

Right, because Vettel was trying to pass when he was told not to. I expect to see some crashing between the two.

Your expectations will come out empty, you'll see.

[ajdavison2]

history goes further back than 2010. can't believe no one has brought this up.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHDTefmirJo[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np88nmGXpbI[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCpWjuwsUag[/youtube]

[rkn]

Yup, robbed Webber of his first win. He was pretty pissed off after the race.

[RB7ate9]

As we continue with the Red Bull/Webber/Vettel situation, something to consider is the 2.05s pit stop for Webber in Malaysia. That was the result of a perfectly well-oiled machine. The same thing with the 3 other record-beating pit stops. That wasn't a matter of pace on track, that was the result of the 10+ other teammates.

Something that cannot be underestimated is the attitude of the rest of the team as they are directly affected by this. Every mechanic wants their drivers to be chill and fast. If they are causing all of these problems - despite being fast - the mechanics, analysts, number crunchers, feed-analysts, are all stuck with that worry: "What is Webber or Vettel going to do?" They shouldn't be forced to be worried about that. It's going to be visible on track, no matter how hard they try to steam ahead.

[ringo]

Overall i think vettel is not speaking the truth as it is.
He shouldnt say Mark didnt deserve the win. I a would agree with him if Mark had full power and was told to keep going.
However Mark was told to slow down and turn down his engine.
If the team orderes one driver to slow down, how can the other ignore a similar order? That is not fair.

Orders should only be ignored if both cars were not giving special instructions to slow their cars. Ie under normal racing circumstances.

[ringo]

Huge statements from Vettel.

Even though i feel Webber was clearly robbed of a victory and that Vettel's actions were immature and disgusting, i actually respect Vettel more after reading that interview. First of all he is right in that he is a racer not only as a person but as professional. Second of all, we all know that the apologies he made to Mark were false and pure media bullsh**. The fact that he is defending his actions, and publicly saying he would have done it again is proof that he thinks he did the right thing. IMO you always should do what you think is right, especially if that is something you know you would do again. But he also displays a clear double standard when he says that he is still sorry for putting himself above the team: If he makes the same move again in the future (which he says he would), that'll also be putting himself in front of the team, so is he then really sorry?

Without a doubt Vettel feels obnoxiously entitled to win, at any cost. My point is that if he is going to behave like this, he might as well own up, and stand for it like he did today, not like he did immediately after the Malaysian GP.

His words are not genuine, a bit of cowardice. he says he will do what he want's and that no one in the team is better than him, then he goes and says Horner is the Boss and the leader, then he says he will listen to the team and soon back tracks.
This guy doesn't have any resolve. Took him 3 weeks to make up his mind and still he's sitting on the fence.
Whatever his feelings, i think webber will go medieval on his ass on the track, and this unfortunately will open up the championship for red bull's rivals.
If Mark is given equal opportunity, engine settings and direction during a race, he will give Vettel trouble. Might even run him off a couple times too. In fact i think Redbull wants them to go at it. Maybe they want both drivers to sort out the hierarchy on their own.

[Red Schneider]

Red Bull is ultimately in racing for publicity and to sell drinks, so I'm going to (baselessly) speculate that after a certain amount of success they need another way to make waves. As I recall Renault left the sport (as an engine supplier albeit) because they had 'won too much' or something like that in the '90s. I can just about guarantee that if Red Bull keeps winning and winning for the next few years but viewership dwindles (ala Ferrari in the 2000s), Mateschitz is not going to be completely happy.

If Red Bull keeps winning in a nice boring way, people will start to tune out. Maybe letting their drivers duke it out is just the ticket to whip up some buzz. It's not all about winning.

[xDama]

I think this entire situation is blown out of proportion, in a gigantic matter.

I'm not really a Vettel-fan, but I have an enormous amount of respect for the 'fella'. If you come to look at it, he's right to take the win from Webber in Malaysia. I mean, in Brazil '12 Vettel could have lost the WDC because of his action's. How was that helping 'the team'? The team didn't even enforce team orders on Webber, because they respected the entire 'situation' between the two drivers. But it's a gamble that could have cost them a WDC. And it's not even the first time...

The only thing that bothers me about Malaysia is the fact that Webber probably wasn't expecting the overtake, hence wasn't driving at 100%. But even then, Vettel probably would have overtaken him. And jezus christ, last year Vettel won with a handfull of points, in 2010 it was the same situation. How on earth could you expect Vettel to hand in 7 points, knowing that he could well be in exactly the same situation as in 2010/2012?

[WhiteBlue]

Overall i think vettel is not speaking the truth as it is.
He shouldnt say Mark didnt deserve the win. I a would agree with him if Mark had full power and was told to keep going.
However Mark was told to slow down and turn down his engine....

I'm surprised that it took Seb so long to retaliate on Mark's lack of team order discipline. Webber did it 2010 in Turkey and created the opportunity for the crash, he went on with it at Silverstone 2011 and crowned it with his attack in Brazil 2012. So he effectively did it for each of the last three years. Why would Seb feel that he had to stick to team orders when his team mate always disregards them?

Mateschitz has been openly critical about team orders forever. I had expected Mark Webber to be given some sanctions after he went against team order in Turkey 2010, but he wasn't. At least I would have expected his race engineer to be fired for the conspiracy. Even that did not happen. So that has set the tune by Mateschitz effectively telling the drivers they could simply disregard Horner's instructions.

Horner's admission that he has no control over his driver's is just confirming the obvious. It changes nothing at all for the way the team operates. Seb would be a fool if he expects Mark to give him support. So why will that make a difference in the future? They have simply confirmed to the public what is obviously internally known within the team for a long time. I do not believe that this is a disadvantage for Seb or Red Bull that the thing has now gone public. At least everybody knows where he stands. Mark will not be able to hide behind a smoke screen.

And Seb is obviously confident he can fight on his own strength, and rightly so. I expect him to beat Mark in the WDC like he has always done. Mark should accept that he has to simply generate number one performance consistently if he wants to beat Seb. In my view he has not even been close to that level for a long time. Except for a part of the season in 2010 where he profited from technical failures on Seb's car he never was a match.

What the Sepang episode clearly showed was the role that Horner plays within the team. He is simply there to be a mouthpiece for the people who run that team. In my view those are Mateschitz who decides the driver policies and Newey who runs the parent company Red Bull Technologies. The team is simply an outsourced resource which allows Newey to focus on the things he does best. When he thinks that one driver will best support his development strategy he has no problems to give him superior support as seen in Silverstone 2010. Horner will just provide the fall guy for such actions. He can bath in the glory when Red Bull wins and he is supposed to eat the shite when the public does not like the things that happen.