Ferrari F138

[amouzouris]

so..FI is rock solid..merc's fw is similar to ferrari's but the amplitude of the oscillations on the floor are much much smaller...
also, those oscillations on the ferrari might not even be intentional, maybe the bumps in the curbs are at the exact distance required for the floor to oscillate at its natural frequency

[sucof]

so..FI is rock solid..merc's fw is similar to ferrari's but the amplitude of the oscillations on the floor are much much smaller...
also, those oscillations on the ferrari might not even be intentional, maybe the bumps in the curbs are at the exact distance required for the floor to oscillate at its natural frequency

Indeed. Finally somebody who knows what natural frequency means and what are its effects

[Vanja #66]

so..FI is rock solid..merc's fw is similar to ferrari's but the amplitude of the oscillations on the floor are much much smaller...
also, those oscillations on the ferrari might not even be intentional, maybe the bumps in the curbs are at the exact distance required for the floor to oscillate at its natural frequency

Both the floor and FW were oscillating much more than on Merc... It seems to me that that isn't due to natural frequency, because those two structures are very different, it's hard to imagine they have similar natural frequencies... Or do you think it's just for the floor, and FW is oscillating regularly?

[Redragon]

so..FI is rock solid..merc's fw is similar to ferrari's but the amplitude of the oscillations on the floor are much much smaller...
also, those oscillations on the ferrari might not even be intentional, maybe the bumps in the curbs are at the exact distance required for the floor to oscillate at its natural frequency

Both the floor and FW were oscillating much more than on Merc... It seems to me that that isn't due to natural frequency, because those two structures are very different, it's hard to imagine they have similar natural frequencies... Or do you think it's just for the floor, and FW is oscillating regularly?

Just a thought from someone that doesn't have any idea on physics and natural frequencies.
After seeing the footage of Merc I think that frecuencies or oscilations are caused by the Kerbs. I am assuming that the oscilation or frequencies will be bigger upon the distance between the exterior point of the floor and where it is attached to the body. So, Merc body is a bit fatter than the rear end of Ferrari. So I guess that distance on Ferrari car is bigger so the oscilation and frecuencies are bigger.

Hope I am not looking like a stupid after this simplistic explanation

[shelly]

Fp2 - Friday 19 - Bahrain


look at the floor and front wing

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... yzuFgtYj-o[/youtube]

WOW,i never saw something like that before...are other cars like this, if is only Ferrari is that legal ?

Also is it even good from an aero perspective to have the floor do that ?

Yes it is - in the sens that teams try to have the most flexible floor they can in front of the rear wheels, because it gives a big aero advantage. it has benn like that for years, to the point that to prevent excesses there is a specific flexibility test for this part of the floor.
In the past ( pre 2009 rule change) to have the flow corners bend down the flick support were used - now it is probably pursued through thin layups.
An interesting feature most cars have is that the floor area around the rear wheel is made with a different panel, with a curved junction line with the main floor. It is not related to coanda exhaust - what is the reason behind that? I think it could be linked to floor felxibility, but I could be wrong

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Ferrari brought some updates to Bahrain. A new set of turning vanes under the nose is one of them, pictured below with flo-viz.





via Sutton Images

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Yes it is - in the sens that teams try to have the most flexible floor they can in front of the rear wheels, because it gives a big aero advantage.

Shelly, perhaps you can explain why it gives an aerodynamic advantage to have the floor flexing by rear tyres/flow corners?

[Redragon]

I have got a question.

Ferrari hasn't used the shark mouth for the last three races. It was supposed to be for cooling. This race would have been the place to use it if it was for cooling and if they really had problems with overheating as they were reporting.

The mouth was only used in full during pre-season testing. So I am wondering if they were developing something else and not using for cooling. What you think?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I have got a question.

Ferrari hasn't used the shark mouth for the last three races. It was supposed to be for cooling. This race would have been the place to use it if it was for cooling and if they really had problems with overheating as they were reporting.

The mouth was only used in full during pre-season testing. So I am wondering if they were developing something else and not using for cooling. What you think?

Well technically they have used the shark mouth, albeit a smaller version.

Malaysia


Today in Bahrain it was present, although it looks smaller than the Malaysia spec

via Sutton Images

[cooken]

so..FI is rock solid..merc's fw is similar to ferrari's but the amplitude of the oscillations on the floor are much much smaller...
also, those oscillations on the ferrari might not even be intentional, maybe the bumps in the curbs are at the exact distance required for the floor to oscillate at its natural frequency

Both the floor and FW were oscillating much more than on Merc... It seems to me that that isn't due to natural frequency, because those two structures are very different, it's hard to imagine they have similar natural frequencies... Or do you think it's just for the floor, and FW is oscillating regularly?

I would imagine the oscillation in the FW is having some effect on the airflow above/below the floor at that point so that may contribute to the similar looking oscillations there. FW definitely seems to have hit a mode.

[f300v10]

I don't believe anyone else has pointed this out yet, but in addition to the 'shark gills', the shape of the 'UPS' duct portion of the sidepods that house the exhaust has changed significantly between China and Bahrain. The latest design is fatter and rounder with a more gradual undercut.

China:


Bahrain:

[Kiril Varbanov]

Yes it is - in the sens that teams try to have the most flexible floor they can in front of the rear wheels, because it gives a big aero advantage.

Shelly, perhaps you can explain why it gives an aerodynamic advantage to have the floor flexing by rear tyres/flow corners?

I'll be glad to hear more on the subject, but generally when car is cornering there's a lot of pressure going on at the sides of the underbody, as opposed to the straight line.

In F1, when it comes to floors, lots of downforce is being generated at the leading edge of the floor and near the diffuser, of course. At the same time, since skirts are not allowed in any form, the air that's bleeding from the sides of the floor is better to be moved out of there as fast as possible, thus creating another low pressure area. This would be similar to Venturi effect, but on the sides - to achieve that, you need a floor that's bending upwards, resembling a diffuser exit.
Also, when cornering, the underside area ahead of the rear tires has some quite strong vortices being generated - the stronger they are, the bigger the downforce would be. Also, if you can control those vortices and prevent the "bubble burst" you would be in a good position to induce some additional downforce. This would match the curved side of the floor development that Ferrari had for a while.

In this case, however, the oscillation was too severe, IMO, so I'm not sure that's the desired effect. Let's see some more footage.

[stefan_]

Bahrain 2013 - Friday (19.04.2013)

[shelly]

Yes it is - in the sens that teams try to have the most flexible floor they can in front of the rear wheels, because it gives a big aero advantage.

Shelly, perhaps you can explain why it gives an aerodynamic advantage to have the floor flexing by rear tyres/flow corners?

I think a not flat floor (lowered at the edges) moves the stagnation point in front of the rear wheel below the floor a bit to the inside, so it makes the contraction in the kink line zone more efffective => more downforce. Also you can see its effect like a small side skirt
That zone would not be tightly regulated if there was not a big performance gain to find in that flexing.

The oscillation is an unwanted side effect of having a "soft" floor (low frequncy first vibration mode); but wen the car is not hitting the kerb - ie not being excited at that frequency - you would have no oscillation (davew could you please correct me if wrong?)

@kiril: in some part of the sides the flow comes out of the floor, but in most of the side it wants to come in because of the lower pressure below the floor. Side skirts when they are full length avoid flow lien to escape laterelly after the leading edge suction; when they are short (starting from mid side and then going to the end) they act on the flow coming in , develop a vortex that rolls under the floor and lowers the pressure

The interesting part is also the add-ons around the rear wheels: becuase the exhaust hit the floow in another zones, the reason for having them that shape is not immediate to me. Need help from @f1_aero...

[smhasan7]

Guys, this question is from a complete amateur in terms of technical knowledge but an F1 geek nevertheless.

My question is, can you please summarise a bit about the updates this season, obviously they'd be working that's why we're competitive but in terms of wind tunnel correlation, are things working out better or they're still being tested and then not being used during qualis and GPs.... Alonso did say the updates were inconclusive and that got me nervous and brought me here. Looking at the photos though, there seem to be many updates and the flexy wings/floors and they obviously calm the nervousness.

Your answers would be really appreciated...