2014 Design

[Huntresa]

KERS and DD. First KERS because they didnt restrict it to everyone to use it or ban it. And DD was needed to be banned (and should was) because regulations in 2009. are meant to slow the cars and remove all those little wings around the car, not made them faster. Because of those two mistakes, Red Bull become force in F1 (they didnt have it cause car with KERS had balance problems on braking), and they could easier upgrade DD on their car then rest of teams (for same reason car's balance). FIA wanted to stop dominations like ferrari's and renault's, and in irony created Red Bull domination.
So i just want FIA to stop meddling in F1 and make strict regulations rules about what is illegal and what is legal. I just dont want in 2014. that some team driving on track second and half faster then rest...

I can agree with you that FIA should make stricter rules or better maybe is a better wording, but at the same time as i said above its finding these things that make F1 atleast for me exciting, cause i love the tech side of F1.

I dont agree that DD led to Red Bull dominance tho, it led to them with their exisiting good 09 car to have the best car at the end, but you gotta remeber everyone started from scratch in 09, so any team could have become Red Bull or none could have made it.

Cause when we had DD Red Bull didnt actually dominate, not in 09 or 10. Both year they had a good car but not a dominate one. In 11 they found or made use of another loophole, that loophole gave them the championship however. But from my perspective Red Bull would have had a good car today anyways with or without DD and blown diffusers, cause it fundamentally a good car.

[Huntresa]

FIA does not define a beam wing or does it? My understanding was that it is the wing support and its shape is a result of lack of regulations. It is similar to the suspension wishbone where the shape and dimension is not defined.

I thought it was just an area where we didnt have defined rules so teams made the beamwing and then used it as the support.

So i thought that in 2014 they had to move the support down to the floor/diffuser on the side of the endplates or in the middle, but that you arent allowed to have bodywork where the current beamwing is.

I might be wrong. Just saying

Edit: I found it.

"The lower beam wing has been a method by which the teams have been able to extract additional downforce for a number of seasons now. Currently the rules permit bodywork between the rear wheels up until a point 400mm above the reference plane. However the 2014 rules stipulate that no bodywork is allowed in the region above 150mm from the reference plane (with the exception as always being the 150mm central zone shown roughly in green on the image below, allowing the teams to still utilise Monkey Seats)"



Source: SomersF1

[astracrazy]

ye, no beam wing then. The rear wing will need to be supported down the center. I should also think every team will run with a monkey seat (and maybe put some development there) to try and claw back the loss of the beam wing. I don't know how much a beam wing is worth having said that - but obviously enough that every team always runs one.

[Huntresa]

ye, no beam wing then. The rear wing will need to be supported down the center. I should also think every team will run with a monkey seat (and maybe put some development there) to try and claw back the loss of the beam wing. I don't know how much a beam wing is worth having said that - but obviously enough that every team always runs one.

Seems hard to make a strut in the middle and a monkeyseat without making the monkey seat not work 100%. But this is just me thinkin in my mind and picture it.

[Huntresa]

http://somersf1.blogspot.se/2013/01/201 ... anges.html

Reading this article where i found the beamwing stuff i rly find the exhaust positioning interesting and is most likely why they removed the beamwing cause the exhaust will exit exactly where we currently have a beamwing.

[CBeck113]

After reading that article (thanks for the link Huntresa!), I could imagine that the monkey seat will evolve into a diffuser for the exhaust gases, just so that energy doesn't go unused. It would be pretty efficient, since the tips of the exhausts would be directly where the vertical supports + horizontal elements would sit. Probably won't even need to seal it off aerodynamically. Just need to make sure that the pressure increase has no negative influence on the bottom of the wing or the diffuser.
Now it's time for a beer - holiday in Germany tomorrow, and soccer tonight & tomorrow night!

[turbof1]

The removal of the beam wing will have a serious impact on rear downforce. putting focus on the monkey seat will bring very little; a span of 15 cm brings very little scope of performance. You can throw several shapes and edges on it, but I doubt teams get to find an additional tenth out of it.

Is it possible to shape the rear wishbones, now heavily enlarged to enclose the driveshaft, aerodynamically into a wing?

[FW17]

Tyrrell solid wishbone
With the front wheels at the rear concept being outlawed at the German Grand Prix, Tyrrell went and found another way of reducing drag on its 024. At the 1996 Italian Grand Prix it ran a solid front wishbone, this also cut drag and like the wheel solution the FIA banned it, on the grounds of being a moveable aerodynamic device. Spoilsports.


Wonder how Redbull, Ferrari and Mclaren are running something like that this year?

[Saribro]

Wishbone shape is limited by regulations. I believe the profile must be symmetrical, with a maximum width and maximum angle allowed.

[Matt Somers]

Thanks for the positive comments on the article guys, I suspect we will see Monkey Seats designed much more like the DRD style seat of Lotus. Lest we forget though that the MS is not entirely a downforce generator and moreover a way of aiding in Rear Wing attachment. (The MS allows for a slightly steeper AoA at the rear wing)

[FW17]

Radiator - Intercooler packaging from the 80's

[Timstr]

At the FIA press conference in Barcelona, Andrian Newey confimrs some of the changes for 2014:

...will these cars look very different from this year's cars in their shape? I guess you already have an idea: a shorter engine cover or something like that…

AN: So much of the shape of the car is dictated by the regulations, and that kind of hems you in. Visually, as was said the lack of the beam wing, the low nose which is again forced by regulations and a slightly narrower overall front wing – 75mm a side narrower. Those are the other things you'll notice. The other thing, depending on how good a job everybody manages to do, is probably slightly bigger sidepods to accommodate the significantly increased cooling requirements.

[Blackout]

But bigger how ? larger (bigger frontal area) ? larger but undercut ? larger with no undercut (like 2002-2003 cars for example) ?
higher ? longer ?

The removal of the beam wing and the exhaust exits* might, IMO, encourage some teams to sacrifice airflow above the sidpods and add air intakes similar to the Benetton B189
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... t_1990.jpg

[Huntresa]

But bigger how ? larger (bigger frontal area) ? larger but undercut ? larger with no undercut (like 2002-2003 cars for example) ?
higher ? longer ?

The removal of the beam wing and the exhaust exits* might, IMO, encourage some teams to sacrifice airflow above the sidpods and add air intakes similar to the Benetton B189
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... t_1990.jpg

I would have assumed with the extra stuff to cram in maybe the sidepods either will become wider aka less undercut or higher, as in less of a slope or the slope will start later then today.

[Neno]

But bigger how ? larger (bigger frontal area) ? larger but undercut ? larger with no undercut (like 2002-2003 cars for example) ?
higher ? longer ?

The removal of the beam wing and the exhaust exits* might, IMO, encourage some teams to sacrifice airflow above the sidpods and add air intakes similar to the Benetton B189
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... t_1990.jpg

I can only say Lambo 291. With today tehnology, i dont expect car with bulk sidepods, just few teams today run similar sidepods. Today car's have big wheelbase, so i expect similar packaging like today, Sauber will probably go for something like this.

http://www.racingmodels.com/ekmps/shops ... 4413-p.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... rioKw9yZlw