2013 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona

[SiLo]

Great win for Alonso, and great podium for Kimi, but other than that, what a joke! Never seen so many people pussy footing around the track. Hardly even racing anymore. DRS was enough for overtaking, bring back the bridgestones and refuelling and let the drivers get on with it!

[cooken]

And now for something completely different.

TV obviously doesn't show everything that happens, but as far as I can tell, no one left the track today. The three retirements happened on track and proceeded directly into the pit. No driver appeared to have had an "off".

Allow me to drag you back into the dirt with everyone: Nobody left the track today because nobody was racing. Likelihood of mistakes goes way down when you don't push.

[donskar]

That problem i have with this F1 formula is the fact that I as a fan have lost the most hardcore race entertainment series. For me F1 was the best drivers driving against the limit and trying to beat each other on merit and pure race craft. IRL was all about top-speed an excitement close racing during the hole race while driving insanely fast with the odd crashes and yellow flag to create a show. NASCAR was the Hollywood of racing, drama on and of the track countless pit-stops and totally random who is going to win the next race. With This F1 we as fans have lost the one series that wasn't a show and isn't about off track fights and countless pit-stops to "create" a show. But now days F1 isn't formula 1 because its synthetic. Its not a race because the drivers aren't fighting each other hard enough its not exciting because the cars and drivers aren't push to the limit. The show part of F1 used to be 3-5 Lap battle between drivers that were fighting for every place and inch of the track. Thats the show element of from my point of view. Everyone can remember the great battles that lasted countless laps because the cars the drivers and the tryes were able to provide for such battles. Schumacher dominated his era but that doesn't equals to boring racing. I really enjoyed the great moves the legend made on track to pass his rivals, because his rivals were not forfeiting there positions but the pure race craft of MSC when he was carving true the field that was the show. We seen MSC win races from p16 not by using DRS or because of tyre management but because of pure pace. The way Vettel carves through the field doesn't even resemble the way MSC did it. Vettel just breezes past without being attacked because his rivals need to save tyres or he opens the magic slot called DRS. You know something is wrong when qualifying for a race in Formula 1 isn't important anymore.....

People who can get excited by this Pirelli dominated race series are to young to remember the real racing times or just joined to sport 3-4 years ago. Trust me F1 was far more exciting then now days. I really am a fan but this "race" today just did it for me, after following every race live for more then 13 years I switched channels and enjoyed me some football. I really hoped they bring back refueling just to make the race faster, i think that a lot of problems would be solved if the cars were lighter during the race. No more tire issues, faster lap times, people fighting on the track because, important of qualifying because of track position. Just give them 60KG fuel cells and let them sort out their on strategy, instead of the tire dictating the race.

From one dinosaur to another: great post

[sAx]

Martin Brundle was spot on when he saw the footage of Raikonnen "racing", its pathetic he driving like an old lady on the M1....no commitment whatsoever. How is it possible that the fastest cars in Qualifying are not even fast in the race, since i have watched F1 if have never witnessed anything like that. Red Bull and Merc have built the fastest cars but come racing they can't extract the maximum because that causes the tyres to degrade.....

Does seem strange to have such high specific outputs and technology crammed onto the cars and then use to the tyres to forbid the drivers from racing. So maybe a one make formula is the answer, no front or rear wings, no KERS and blue printed engines limited to 200bhp is the way ahead just so we can actually see drivers maximising the chassis and race! I think its still called Formula Ford!!

[komninosm]

What's the Mercedes qualy "trick"?

Yeah, it seems strange when they suck on the race next day. Blame Pirelli?

[BlackSwan]

Hello!!! I have a question, maybe it is stupid, but I've made a little calculation about the gap between Massa and Raikkonen and if I'm not wrong the gap lost during the lap with finished tyres with respect to Raikkonen, around 17s, was enough to supply it with a fifth pit also around 17s.

What do you think about that? Could it be possible a fifth stops strategy to put Felipe in second position?

[radosav]

What's the Mercedes qualy "trick"?

Yeah, it seems strange when they suck on the race next day. Blame Pirelli?

Blame Mercedes!

[komninosm]

That problem i have with this F1 formula is the fact that I as a fan have lost the most hardcore race entertainment series. For me F1 was the best drivers driving against the limit and trying to beat each other on merit and pure race craft. IRL was all about top-speed an excitement close racing during the hole race while driving insanely fast with the odd crashes and yellow flag to create a show. NASCAR was the Hollywood of racing, drama on and of the track countless pit-stops and totally random who is going to win the next race. With This F1 we as fans have lost the one series that wasn't a show and isn't about off track fights and countless pit-stops to "create" a show. But now days F1 isn't formula 1 because its synthetic. Its not a race because the drivers aren't fighting each other hard enough its not exciting because the cars and drivers aren't push to the limit. The show part of F1 used to be 3-5 Lap battle between drivers that were fighting for every place and inch of the track. Thats the show element of from my point of view. Everyone can remember the great battles that lasted countless laps because the cars the drivers and the tryes were able to provide for such battles. Schumacher dominated his era but that doesn't equals to boring racing. I really enjoyed the great moves the legend made on track to pass his rivals, because his rivals were not forfeiting there positions but the pure race craft of MSC when he was carving true the field that was the show. We seen MSC win races from p16 not by using DRS or because of tyre management but because of pure pace. The way Vettel carves through the field doesn't even resemble the way MSC did it. Vettel just breezes past without being attacked because his rivals need to save tyres or he opens the magic slot called DRS. You know something is wrong when qualifying for a race in Formula 1 isn't important anymore.....

People who can get excited by this Pirelli dominated race series are to young to remember the real racing times or just joined to sport 3-4 years ago. Trust me F1 was far more exciting then now days. I really am a fan but this "race" today just did it for me, after following every race live for more then 13 years I switched channels and enjoyed me some football. I really hoped they bring back refueling just to make the race faster, i think that a lot of problems would be solved if the cars were lighter during the race. No more tire issues, faster lap times, people fighting on the track because, important of qualifying because of track position. Just give them 60KG fuel cells and let them sort out their on strategy, instead of the tire dictating the race.

From one dinosaur to another: great post

I agree too. We need better tires and refueling back.

[munudeges]

I agree too. We need better tires and refueling back.

[komninosm]

What's the Mercedes qualy "trick"?

Yeah, it seems strange when they suck on the race next day. Blame Pirelli?

Blame Mercedes!

I don't like to blame rape victims :p
(just kidding)

I agree too. We need better tires and refueling back.

nice argument...

[komninosm]

Hamilton: "I CANT DRIVE AN SLOWER"

great racing yeh.

LOL thanks for the laugh mate

[komninosm]

If they had the balls to run the same strategy as Ferrari, they could push. I didn't see Alonso dicking around saving tires.

This sums up today's race perfectly. Ferrari's lightbulb moment: "Hey, let's just schedule an extra stop and race the crap out of these tires." And it seems to have worked pretty well. Alonso from P5 to P1 and Massa from P9 to P3, which, incidentally, makes you wonder where he would have been if he had started from P6.

Of course, I suspect that the others will have caught on by the next race and we will see more 4-stoppers this season.

Didn't Vettel, Webber, Di Resta, Perez, Ricciardo, Gutierez, Hamilton, Sutil, etc. already do 4 stops?

[komninosm]

I agree. I just don't understand when they say that F1 now a days is more close and packed. I mean in 2010, Championship was decided at the final race and there were 4 contenders. Then pirelli came and guess what, Championship was decided a few races before and there was only 1 championship leader throughout the season. In 2012, only 2 drivers were contender for championship at final round and only those 2 kept changing the championship lead. Back then was a lot more exciting in my opinion. Back then was the thing that deserved to be called RACING.

You obviously missed the Schumacher years.

Also the cars are closer in performance than they have ever been.

oh here we go, the old 'schumacher years' argument being drolled out.
Welll, for starters, at least none of them in those days were driving 10 seconds off the pace to engineer dictated laptimes.

secondly, apart from 2001,2002,2004 - all other years and championships that schumacher competed in were competitive. Fact.
2000 - awesome dual between him and Hakinnen for the title, that ended at the final race.
2003 - 4 way scrap between him, Kimi, and the 2 BMW's, ended at final race.
2005 - schumi not in the running, but again a great dual between Alonso and Kimi for the championship - and those tyres had to last an entire race distance and did so with ease (IMAGINE THAT.....)
2006 - another great flat out dual, pushing to the absolute limits of car and driver, all the way to brazil.

even in 2004 when competition was at its worst - at least behind the ferraris there were some great scraps, all the drivers pushing hard, Webber especially in his Jag, the cars were at their fastest.
infact, EVEN in the 'non competitive' 2002/2004 years - it was NOT the case that Barichello finished 2nd behind Schumacher, every race. IT was nothing like a Mclaren 1989 situation with Senna and Prost.
Barichello regularly finished 3rd, meaning either BMW or Mclaren were in the hunt normally, every weekend - its just that schumacher completely outperformed his teammates and consistently...thats why he won 5 championships in a row.

so yeh........i found the schumacher years great, to be honest.

sorry , what we have now is unarguably terrible - Teams and now team principals, and NOW the tv pundits themselves agree. All of whom have a vested interest in not saying anything bad, and keeping the show going.
its unarguable. Sorry.

oh and last time I checked, Vettel has won it the last 3 years in a row.

What you're basically saying, when you say 'we dont want schumacher years' is.......we dont want a driver to be so good as to dominate.....No, we need to mix it up so that the Best driver/team combo DOESNT win every year.
Unlike...........any other sport in the world. Was Ferrari/Alonso the best team/driver combo today? yes.......maybe.........how much of that was INTENTIONAL? I'd argue very little.
Even Alonso acknowledged this, in the driver pen he said that its incosistent that they are down 1 race, up the next race, and that they need to find the consistency.

They won't. none of the teams will, because the tyres have been designed to operate in narrow parameters, and every circuit will have different temperatures.
Hence the 'suck it and see' approach that was mentioned in commentary, and its the approach which all the teams take.
Its not like each team has a fixed strategy, that they plan on doing. No.... they have to monitor the tyre wear per lap to see what to do next because its completely unpredictable on race day.

I believe Ferrari did intend on doing 4 stops from the off........was it coiincidence that it happened to be the best strategy on the day? What if the temperatures had been a bit hotter. Who knows?

I hated Schumacher, but I have to agree with this guy overall
We need more driving and less coasting.
There needs to be 3 FREE tire choices, one that lasts about 60% of the race one that lasts 40% and one that lasts 20%. They need to be actually quicker by a meaningful percentage than the others. You can't have harder tires that perform almost the same or better than softer ones, it's weird! And no rules about which tire you're forced to use.
Also bringing back refueling would help with drivers always racing and not coasting on fuel-save mode (though it's usually always tire-save mode nowadays).

[iotar__]

Again you are focussing too much on the story and not on the message. He basicilly said tyres made the sport random, which I agree with; it's just madning that you have front grid lockout, but fall back to sixth and twelfth just because the tyres aren't working. We had on average 4 to 5 stops. 4 to 5 stops, that's just too much. Racing should be decided on track, not in the pits!

I'd much rather have the old Schumacher era back. Back then we had one car dominating the field. This race we had one car dominating the field, with the addition that the field was not brutally fighting eachother, but asking with a frightened voice over the radio of they are allowed to defend their position.

1. This is your prediction before the race:
"I think hamilton first, vettel second, and rosberg thirth."
No, there's nothing random about results this season (and season before for that matter) but if your starting point is something like that you are bound to feel confused. I suggest you stop listening to salesman like Brundle and actually watch the races.

2. I see the insanity about tyres and golden era continues. Yes, only lack of Bridgestones and refuelling is standing in the way of brilliant racing in F1. FFS it was exactly the opposite. It's really like some alternative reality where memories were zeroed Men in Black style. Virtually nothing in this thread about actual current sport and Barcelona race, only uninformed back-patting of self proclaimed "veterans". The only reason for it - MY FAVOURITE DRIVER HAD A SHITTY RACE, HE WAS WINNING ON BRIDGESTONES SO IF THEY BRING THEM BACK EVERYTHING WILL BE WELL. Oh dear, what a waste of time to read it. Soon enough 2009 or 2011 will be some F1 classic season. Speaking of 2009, remember SPA? Very RANDOM results thanks to TEMPERATURES AND TYRES, faster FI stuck behind gizmo KERS defending Ferrari, fastest RB qualifying in 9th or sth. Oh the good old Bridgestone days. 2006 or Schumacher era great? What are you guys drinking/taking?

[turbof1]

If you think I am a fanboy, you are badly mistaken. I find it kind of insulting you are trying to pin it on that, while it was nothing more then an example. Vettel had a Marussia chasing him down. When Raikkonen took Vett'ls position, Vettel was told not to defend. I do not know about you, but every one of us would have loved Vettel to defend his position to the teeth, not watching himself getting too much on the marbles when he very galantly let Raikkonen past.

The race was littered with similar situations. The only time we had nice hard fights were at the start. It was also inmediately the end of the race, because all else was driving around a circuit, not racing, but nursing tyres.

I also don't want the Schumacher era back; what I am getting at was that that era was better then this one. Which it is; even with refueling