Honda returns to F1 in 2015

[turbof1]

Is The mcLaren - Marussia partnership still going on? If so Marussia might get those Honda engines.

I think it is. They do use mclaren's windtunnel.

[ESPImperium]

ESPImperium, i still dont understand why do you think Lotus will go on Honda engines? For me it more possible to Caterham, Williams will go on Honda's engine. Lotus have great connections with Renault, more precise Renault have with Enstone, even more then Red Bull Racing. Lotus have 25% discount on engines there, as Enstone factory of their former team and cooperation with people who worked even from Benetton era there. Bonds are not something you can throw it, specialy
when Lotus and Red Bull are their main advertisers with results, unlike Caterham and Williams.

As far as the rumours going about Lotus and Honda, well Lopez trying to get good price and deal for engines, as Renault
engines are most expensive.

The reason is that they arnt as close as many people think post 2009. They pay 25% the cost of a RS27-2013 at present, but that deal was for 4 years with a 25% reduction for the first year of the new engine. The reason is that Lopez and Bullier sold a crap load of IP to Renault that was associated to the Einstone base from 2005 to 2009. Lopez cut a great deal as the money they got paid for their Simulator & Wellness facility and their Gearbox Dyno Facility. However the fact that the Renault RS34 V6T engine is the cost it is, even a 25% reduction for a year dosnt make financial sense. We are talking €6m here, when a Honda is expected to be around the €15m mark, the Renault is still going to be €18m. €3m is a lot of money that can be spent on the Chassis side of things.

Lotus-Honda is a definite possibility, and i am not ruling it out.

[turbof1]

Do mind that signing a multi year deal is the cheapest option per year. Sign a one year deal, and you'll be paying alot more. And they need to bridge one year if they really want Honda engines.

[Neno]

ESPImperium, i still dont understand why do you think Lotus will go on Honda engines? For me it more possible to Caterham, Williams will go on Honda's engine. Lotus have great connections with Renault, more precise Renault have with Enstone, even more then Red Bull Racing. Lotus have 25% discount on engines there, as Enstone factory of their former team and cooperation with people who worked even from Benetton era there. Bonds are not something you can throw it, specialy
when Lotus and Red Bull are their main advertisers with results, unlike Caterham and Williams.

As far as the rumours going about Lotus and Honda, well Lopez trying to get good price and deal for engines, as Renault
engines are most expensive.

The reason is that they arnt as close as many people think post 2009. They pay 25% the cost of a RS27-2013 at present, but that deal was for 4 years with a 25% reduction for the first year of the new engine. The reason is that Lopez and Bullier sold a crap load of IP to Renault that was associated to the Einstone base from 2005 to 2009. Lopez cut a great deal as the money they got paid for their Simulator & Wellness facility and their Gearbox Dyno Facility. However the fact that the Renault RS34 V6T engine is the cost it is, even a 25% reduction for a year dosnt make financial sense. We are talking €6m here, when a Honda is expected to be around the €15m mark, the Renault is still going to be €18m. €3m is a lot of money that can be spent on the Chassis side of things.

Lotus-Honda is a definite possibility, and i am not ruling it out.

Sure i am not ruling it out, but it's possibilty of Honda signing Lotus is like signing every other team then Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes. Neither other teams have deal for engines after 2013 Do you think Williams have more money or Caterham for signing Renault engine on that price, but Lotus dont? From 2013 championship constructor points Lotus can easly sign new deal for Renault engines, that is not their problem. Lotus just dont want to pay for engine much more then others, why would they do that. Somewhere i read that Lotus expect continuing working with Renault,
but they sure want lower price for engine so from there you get Honda rumors. Also i dont think Renault would gave up Lotus for a couple million of dollars. I am sure Renault want to have competetive teams after 2013 to bring them good advertising, just i dont see they can do that with Caterham and Toro Rosso, and big maybe Williams. Better having 2 competetive teams like Lotus and RBR, instead 3 uncompetetive teams. This is going under assumption Renault build better engine then Honda.

[GTSpeedster]

Great news! We just need some real tires now...

[mikeerfol]

Hey everyone, first post here.

So some questions regarding Honda.. (Btw I'm a big fan of them so I'm really happy they returned to F1)

1. Do you think Honda will do anything regarding F1 between now and 2015?
2. According to Autosport, McLaren's Jonathan Neale said "It is more a conventional works team type arrangement. We will not go into the commercial agreements, but it does not include equity and we have had no conversation about [McLaren] Automotive." So, do you think McLaren and Honda will work together in the future regarding sportscars?

Thanks

[Neno]

Hey everyone, first post here.

So some questions regarding Honda.. (Btw I'm a big fan of them so I'm really happy they returned to F1)

1. Do you think Honda will do anything regarding F1 between now and 2015?
2. According to Autosport, McLaren's Jonathan Neale said "It is more a conventional works team type arrangement. We will not go into the commercial agreements, but it does not include equity and we have had no conversation about [McLaren] Automotive." So, do you think McLaren and Honda will work together in the future regarding sportscars?

Thanks

1. Yes. Devolopment of new V6 engine takes time. You know that constructor teams already in 2012 started working on their V6 engines, it's a process who need some time. Why do you think Honda is back 2015, and not 2014
2. For now we dont know nothing, about regarding Mclaren and Honda future regarding sportscars, it's too early. Honda will be mostly their engine supplier, but most likely they will have sponsor-partnership just like Red Bull's have with Renault, as they will closely work together.

[Sombrero]

Good news. Now drop Pirelli out and it will be perfect for the future of F-1 racing !

[Gridlock]

Interesting opportunity to quote Gordon Murray:

"Being a fan of Honda engines, I later went to Honda's Tochigi Research Center on two occasions and requested that they consider building for the McLaren F1 a 4.5 litre V12 or V14. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up equipped with a BMW engine."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_F1#cite_note-5

I wonder whether Ron was on that flight to Tokyo. I imagine so but haven't seen him pictured.

I always assumed McLaren Automotive would be the engine supplier from 2015-ish onwards, seeing how the next car will be a smaller 911-baiting beastie which would cry out for a 600bhp V6 Turbo... Weird.

[waynes]

Good news. Now drop Pirelli out and it will be perfect for the future of F-1 racing !

why exactly?

Pirelli are doing what they were asked to do.

as a side note, very happy Honda are back, hoping for many wins with Mclaren

[Spore F1]

Dam this wont mean red and white colors on the mclaren though will it?

This colors were due to marlboro...DAM IT! I am intrigued by the revelation but alot of the mystique is gone for me now that i realized this lol

[WhiteBlue]

Wait. Porsche coming back?

Fact is they aren't even remotely interested.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107007
Lack of road relevance cited.

Porsche will come sooner or later. That is my view of the situation. Currently they are held back by Bernie's money making practises and the lack of manufacturers shaping the rules. Both problems are likely to get resolved one way or the other soon.

Bernie could be out of the business by the time Honda engines are running in F1 with a bribery verdict quite likely in 2014 in Germany.

The second problem is self correcting with the new concord rules and every new manufacturer coming into F1. At the moment the chassis constructors have the ultimate power to shape the rules. If we get five or six manufacturers back who can vote in the F1 commission the face of F1 will change very quickly towards a direction that proper automotive technologies will make a difference in competitiveness.

All you have to do is freeze the aero instead of the propulsion system and you get back to where BMW, Porsche, Ford, GM, Toyota, Tata, Hyundai and others want to be.

F1 is on its way to become the true global motor racing series with a relevant showing in the Americas, Asia and Europe. All auto firms will be keen to get exposure in it as soon as the rules are fixed. Until that time they will probably park their competition departments in LMP1 and prepare.

[gixxer_drew]

Wait. Porsche coming back?

Fact is they aren't even remotely interested.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107007
Lack of road relevance cited.

Porsche will come sooner or later. That is my view of the situation. Currently they are held back by Bernie's money making practises and the lack of manufacturers shaping the rules. Both problems are likely to get resolved one way or the other soon.

Bernie could be out of the business by the time Honda engines are running in F1 with a bribery verdict quite likely in 2014 in Germany.

The second problem is self correcting with the new concord rules and every new manufacturer coming into F1. At the moment the chassis constructors have the ultimate power to shape the rules. If we get five or six manufacturers back who can vote in the F1 commission the face of F1 will change very quickly towards a direction that proper automotive technologies will make a difference in competitiveness.

All you have to do is freeze the aero instead of the propulsion system and you get back to where BMW, Porsche, Ford, GM, Toyota, Tata, Hyundai and others want to be.

F1 is on its way to become the true global motor racing series with a relevant showing in the Americas, Asia and Europe. All auto firms will be keen to get exposure in it as soon as the rules are fixed. Until that time they will probably park their competition departments in LMP1 and prepare.

There is a massive delta between the current level of aero performance and the ultimate possible for an object of that size and speed... so there will always be big leaps to be found in all the loopholes. Its just like engine technology was maybe 60 years ago. Even if you locked displacement, bore and stroke... people were still making big jumps in their understanding of how to use the basic formula. Someone will jump ahead with a new innovation and that is unstoppable. Even having templates or a spec body like indy car, aero is still the dominant factor it will just change the face of what and how you develop aero. When you have 300 million dollars to spend you spend it wherever there is the biggest gain and unless that stops being aero, aero will continue to be developed.

[Joie de vivre]

The thing that irritates me is the fact Honda is going to steal Mercedes's know-how and use it as a base for their engine.

[turbof1]

The thing that irritates me is the fact Honda is going to steal Mercedes's know-how and use it as a base for their engine.

That is not possible. Engine development at Honda should already have started by now. By the time mclaren has collected useful data, the engine will already have its base. They can use the data for refinements, but certainly not as a base.