Mercedes AMG F1 W04

[Ferraripilot]

The question is, does the revised suspension require revised mounting points? If so, Lewis may be out of luck, as he had a gearbox change too early.

Doesn't the new design with a mounting frame around the gearbox allow for just that? Namely a change of suspension geometry without changing the gearbox.

Oh really? I hadn't realised that that was what mercedes were doing. I had heard early on that they had "more flexible" suspension this year in testing, but hadn't seen anything about exactly how it worked.

Do we have any pics of this mounting frame?

One of the few bits of information we received (I wish I could recall where) about W04 was that it would have highly flexible rear suspension geometry. We have not seen any pics of the back end in detail to date, so I can only assume they have an array of mounting positions on the gearbox

[MercAMGF1Fans]

TYRE CHANGES WILL BE MINIMAL. Not good for mercedes
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107475

hence why they're upgrading the rear suspension

[Blackout]

Do we have any more shots of the gearbox?

Just found this in MercAMGF1Fans website

[marcush.]

[marcush.]

looking at the gearbox -picture above -you can clearly see they have abandonned their initial pullrod layout and now have a much more conventional rocker setup with the damper not in a straight line with the pull rod anymore but a lever with considerable ratio .

this is how the Fric layout was in 2011 aluminium Gearbox housing was only a W02 feature methinks )





drawing courtesy c.Scarborough/www.scarbsf1.com

edited for carification .

look at the very different angles of the wishbones especially the upper one .2013 is paralell when 2011 they had the lower paralell to the driveshaft but the upper one steeply inclined.

the blockage in the cokebottle area was severe compared to this years car ... it took them two years of pullrod to emulate REDBulls designs or better said understand all the ins and outs and reasinging for the layout chosen by Newey and Marshall.

[Dreameagl]

looking at the gearbox -picture above -you can clearly see they have abandonned their initial pullrod layout and now have a much more conventional rocker setup with the damper not in a straight line with the pull rod anymore but a lever with considerable ratio .

http://formula1.com/wi/enlarge/sutton/2 ... kor948.jpg

http://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/201 ... c_susp.jpg

drawing courtesy c.Scarborough/www.scarbsf1.com

Your previous post is this year's car and those two pictures are from last year, correct?

[marcush.]

this year vs 2011 (W02 ) but I think this was only later in the year ....2012 they returned to cf box methinks

[diego.liv]

Changing argument for a while:
in 2011 or 2012 Schumi was the fastest guy when the red lights went off, rosberg had great starts too (i recall Spa when he went from 6th to 1st by the Kemmel Straight); now Merc isn't something special at the start, better say they are 'normal' while Ferraris are really good.
Is it something FRIC-related or just the others have improved their own starting system?

[AnthonyG]

Changing argument for a while:
in 2011 or 2012 Schumi was the fastest guy when the red lights went off, rosberg had great starts too (i recall Spa when he went from 6th to 1st by the Kemmel Straight); now Merc isn't something special at the start, better say they are 'normal' while Ferraris are really good.
Is it something FRIC-related or just the others have improved their own starting system?

I don't recall the exact discussions or facts, but wasn't it something with the suspention geometry, where the merc ate its tyres.
So that prob gave them better traction, too much traction...

[marcush.]

Changing argument for a while:
in 2011 or 2012 Schumi was the fastest guy when the red lights went off, rosberg had great starts too (i recall Spa when he went from 6th to 1st by the Kemmel Straight); now Merc isn't something special at the start, better say they are 'normal' while Ferraris are really good.
Is it something FRIC-related or just the others have improved their own starting system?

I don't recall the exact discussions or facts, but wasn't it something with the suspention geometry, where the merc ate its tyres.
So that prob gave them better traction, too much traction...

2010/11Schumachers starts where not that special at all , the gains were made ususally (!) in the opening corners by clever positioning and leaning on brand new tyres maybe as well as Schumacher quite often did choose not to do a Q3 attempt (if he even managed to get that far in 2011) 2012 was different as Schumi was changing his approach -reflected by qualifying on the same level as Rosberg and I don´t remember MGP having any advanatge in starts in 2012.

What on hell is too much traction? one would think a too good grip might be murdering the gearbox but tyre? I can´t see that .

BUT Good traction at the starts relies on weight transfer maximised to the driven wheels - which is of course exactly the opposite of what you want to achieve with FRIC which is aimed at reducing weight transfer ...sure you could design the thing disengaging itself as long as the wheels are not turning and delaying it to start work say for a few seconds or maybe first gear..

[AnthonyG]

What on hell is too much traction? one would think a too good grip might be murdering the gearbox but tyre? I can´t see that .

First,it was a question, so I'm not sure of it.
Second, what I mean is that grip is related to en extent to tyre wear, with today's soft tyres you perhaps can have too much grip.
A car like the lotus, which is very good on its tyres, doesn't seem to have much traction, while the Red Bull has good traction, but isn't very good on its tyres.

[Paul]

But a car that has worse traction is slower while on the limit of wheel-spin, at least that is how I define it. Which means a car with better traction can modulate its usage of the tyre better, push less all while having the same acceleration as the car with worse traction. Which to me seems advantageous as far as tyre management is concerned...

[PhillipM]

The Renault has very good traction, that's why it's easy on it's tyres...

[marcush.]

First,t was a question, so I'm sure of it.
Second, what I mean is that grip is related to en extent to tyre wear, with today's soft tyres you perhaps can have too much grip.
A car like the lotus, which is very good on its tyres, doesn't seem to have much traction, while the Red Bull has good traction, but isn't very good on its tyres.

Apologies..this was not intended to be offensive.

You got better traction and it will help your wear as you don´t spin the tyres as much -unintenionally-

RedBull might have goodmechanical traction -helping them at corner exits but they seem to live also with more downforce at any given speed -which is too much vertical force for the tyre -leading to higher temps without more grip-

But as this is a W04 thread it could very well be W04 has similar or even more excessive DF levels ? would explain their Qualy pace and inability to conserve tyres..

[diego.liv]

Finally i find it
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2 ... geonlapone

Position change on lap one