Pikes Peak

[wesley123]

if it's the same team that did the Dacia then it is safe to say it is developped from the Dacia version. Both cars had a lower tier wing btw.

Well, to have an efficient beam wing (let's call it like this), it needs to be filled with air. The slanted rear of the Mini (as per the Dacia the same driver used last year), will help, but the main use of such thing was on sport-prototypes and formula cars with nice air flow over it. Plus, if he did proper wing tunnel testing as you say, why not having a 3D airfoil profile? the air flow on the side is not the same as the air flow in the middle.

I am not complaining about the wing, just saying it won't really be effective, although I am interested to see aero results for it to see the influence of the slant!

Just cause they did windtunnel testing doesnt mean they have to come up with weird wing shapes. Plus, why should they? such a development might only give them a tenth, why do that when you can virtually do anything in the ultd class?

[thisisatest]

looking at the mini in the video, it looks like the rear beam wing gets more airflow than it initially seems.
the beam wing is at window height. the windows are closer together than the wheel arches, and they appear to taper to the back slightly.
also, from the very brief rear angle shots, it appears that the rear "window" is a fake. the center portion of the rear hatch is actually sloped down at an angle, with some louvers to presumably keep the engine temps down.
the car looks mighty planted in the video.

[MadMatt]

Well, to have an efficient beam wing (let's call it like this), it needs to be filled with air. The slanted rear of the Mini (as per the Dacia the same driver used last year), will help, but the main use of such thing was on sport-prototypes and formula cars with nice air flow over it. Plus, if he did proper wing tunnel testing as you say, why not having a 3D airfoil profile? the air flow on the side is not the same as the air flow in the middle.

I am not complaining about the wing, just saying it won't really be effective, although I am interested to see aero results for it to see the influence of the slant!

Just cause they did windtunnel testing doesnt mean they have to come up with weird wing shapes. Plus, why should they? such a development might only give them a tenth, why do that when you can virtually do anything in the ultd class?

I said why not, doesn't mean it HAS to be like this! What I think is that due to the high cost of wind tunnel testing, they just tried simple things like moving the wing position or adding end plates to the front, things like that. It would be nice to know if they have made some CFD simulations before coming up to the wind tunnel

More details and a nice 12 videos series (only 4 episodes yet tho) have been posted regading the Hyundai of Millen: http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013 ... ideos.html

And I found something related to the broadcast of the race here: http://www.ppihc.com/updates/2013/04/23 ... edbull-tv/

This year will be very interesting it seems.

[MadMatt]

I came across this video of the Audi Sport Quattro S1 test in a pressurised dyno: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQIUEAaT ... jKNXPhrGIV

From what they say, the absolute pressure is as follow:

- 3000m: 630mbar
- 3500m: 655mbar
- 4200m: 700mbar

I do not understand (my German is a bit rusty). When going up the pressure is supposed to drop, how comes they are putting more pressure to simulate increasing altitude?

[Harvey]

Does anybody know if any channels in the UK have picked up broadcasting rights? Redbull showing it all live on the internet is all well and good, but it isn't quite as convenient as an evening highlights package.

[flynfrog]

there is not much media coverage of the event. I don't think any one broadcasts the whole thing even in the us.

[Blanchimont]

After watching this video of the a motorcycle doing the Pikes Peak in under 10 minutes ( and it wasn't even the fastest bike on that day!), i'm wondering what time Sebastian Loeb will clock this year. He's surely one of the best drivers in the world and should have a very well prepared car, so is he going to break the 9:30 minute mark?

And the other question is why are motorcycles that quick up Pikes Peak compared to cars?
They don't have any downforce, the power to weight ratio of a 200hp bike with a weight of maybe 250kg (driver included) is 0,8 hp/kg is about the same as the fast cars in the unlimited class. Loeb's car is said to have 875 hp and 875 kg. Cars should be able to corner quicker with the held of the additional downforce.

The only advantage for bikes i can image are higher top speeds because of lower drag numbers and that bikes are able to cut some corners because of their small width.

Any thoughts on this?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTiTPAusog4[/youtube]

[MadMatt]

Loeb testing at Pikes Peak (already):

http://rallye-passion.blogs.sudinfo.be/ ... -peak.html

Dumas also testing:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1vKqr5N_5M[/youtube]

"Strange looking" rear wing position:

[MadMatt]

I think Loeb is really gonna fly there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... tEXWupLHTE

[Blanchimont]

Loeb will set a new overall record at Pikes Peak if the weather is dry during his run. Last year Rhys Millen wasn't that lucky at the end of his run, the road was wet at this point.

I compared his sector times with the fastest bike and it shows clearly how much the rain slowed him down last year.

Code: Select all

Rhys Millen	 9:46.164		1:42.245	2:19.535	2:45.887	2:58.497
Carlin Dunne	9:52.819		1:48.871	2:24.640	2:49.834	2:49.474
		                 Delta 6,626	   5,105	   3,947	  -9,023

If i correct the last sector time for Rhys Millen to 2:46 min, his overall time will improve to 9:34 min. Pretty close to the 9:30 barrier. By doing this comparison i found the answer to my question above why motorbikes are that fast up the Pikes Peak, they run on dry roads!

[MadMatt]

Nice analysis! Yes the answer is sometimes so simple that we forget about such issues. It is still bloody quick and as you said the reason is because they can cut corners, and let's be honest, Pikes Peak is not really about high speed cornering where cars can make the difference over bikes, but about slow corners and acceleration where bikes are at their best.

I am wondering how fast can Loeb go. When you see Pikes Peak in the past, the drivers always keep a (large) security margin with the side of the road. Loeb is a real rally driver so he's used to take all the road and even more, so I am sure that he will really push at maximum. Cannot wait to see all those theories confirmed or not!

[Blanchimont]

2013 Pikes Peak Test Times

The official site published the times achieved during the test runs from last weekend. Loeb has clearly set the fastest times of all with a 3:42,1 min for the upper part and a 3:29,24 min for the lower part of the track. The gap to Millen is incredible!

For a rough calculation of what the total time of Loeb could be i just need to know how much of the track was actually driven?

http://www.ppihc.com/2013-competitor-te ... formation/ says that the whole track was driven as the sections are defined as:

"Lower Section: Start line to Glen Cove

Upper Section: Glen Cove to the Summit"

But there has to be a part at Glen Cove that wasn't driven during the run. So if i assume that this part would have taken Loeb one minute to complete, his estimated lap time is 3:42,1+3:29,24+1= 8:11,34 min! Unbelievable!

[MadMatt]

Yes to be honest he will be difficult to beat, look how consistent he is. The 9min barrier is definitely something possible. I always thought 9'30 was very pessimistic. Keep in mind that in 1994 (yes, that's 20 years ago!), Rod Millen drove in 10'04 on a racecourse that was mostly covered with gravel!! This was crazy. If we go even more back in History, in 1987 Walter Röhrl drove in 10'47 which is still very respectable.

So yes Loeb will really smash the opposition there. I think the very little improvements over the years on Millen's time are down to the preparation of the drivers and their machines. Just look how many cars have problems or are not really prepared.

9min is definitely possible if weather is fine, the car works good and Loeb doesn't make mistake! The onboard will be very nice to look at.

[Huntresa]

Maybe this has been asked before, but why doesnt anyone, like Red Bull who likes to do these kinds of things put up or build an F1 car for this ?

Or build an unlimited F1 car, like the one imagined by Newey for Grand Turismo, cause this has to be the only race where you can go real unlimited.

[Blanchimont]

Red Bull is already involved in the Pikes Peak Hill Climb. They support both Loeb and Millen, the top two car drivers this year.
Red Bull Pikes Peak News

And i'm not sure if a F1 car will be faster up the road because Pikes Peak is not an usual smooth race track and has narrow turns that are difficult to take for a F1 car. The 208 of Loeb has more power than an F1 car, i would guess the same amount of downforce or slightly more, very wide tyres that provide grip, very short gear ratios that allow a top speed of 240kmh and a well prepared suspension that suits the track. The only "negative" point is the weight of 875kg, more than 200kg above F1 level, but weight isn't everything in racing.

Acceleration numbers are (source):

1,8s for 0-100 kmh (better than F1!)
7s for 0-240 kmh (similar to F1)