Team: Bob Bell (TD), Aldo Costa (ED), Geoff Willis (Technology Director), Andrew Shovlin (CRE), Simon Cole (CTE), Ron Meadows (SD), Matthew Deane (CM), Ross Brawn (TP), Nick Fry (CEO), Toto Wolff (Exec Director), Andy Cowell (MD of powertrain),
Drivers: Nico Rosberg (9), Lewis Hamilton (10) Team name: Mercedes AMG Petronas
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Joie de vivre wrote:well the problem is clear, they suck at race. why? probably heavy fuel load due to high consumption. they really should consider revising the exhaust and maybe engine mapping. maybe this is also the reason behind high tyre degredation. when toro rosso started using rbr styled exhaust they started to score some good points in the race. i presume they aren't focusing enough on that problem
So coming 3rd is suck at race ? And who says they have high fuel consumption ? That was last year, it hasnt even been mentioned as an issue this year, and it wouldnt be that hard to fix especially not over the whole winter.
Also this with switching exhaust=points is crap, Lotus ran good vs Coanda all last year, so its not that huge.
Interesting interview from Lewis. No mention of braking issues, perhaps they are getting the brake feel issues sorted for him. He seems to have found the car well balanced this time, and has been able to drive it to the limit. Main issue appears to be pushing tyres beyond their maximum effective temperature, causing loss of performance.
Interesting interview from Lewis. No mention of braking issues, perhaps they are getting the brake feel issues sorted for him. He seems to have found the car well balanced this time, and has been able to drive it to the limit. Main issue appears to be pushing tyres beyond their maximum effective temperature, causing loss of performance.
Consider this: Maybe this car just doesn't have the overall downforce of the Ferrari, or Red Bull however, it has a cracking suspension system that lets it get on the power early, and brake late as hell. So what happens when this car needs to go around a high speed corner since it doesn't have as much overall downforce? It needs to break a little earlier so that it can get a faster exit, and since your suspension let's you break super late, braking a little early to maximize your launch is essentially braking the same as everyone else.
So the suspension does it's job and the car gets a great launch out of the corner, all is well. Or is it? Getting on the power earlier means you're asking the rear of the car to handle all the loading, because if you had more downforce at the front you could just turn the car, but because you don't have as much overall downforce you can't just turn the wheel and generate more lateral travel you need to power out of the corner to maximize your suspension and newly implemented exhaust blown ramp. Combine this with tires that do not like to be spun, locked up, or otherwise abused and you have the recipe for a car that eats the rear tires. Canada and Monaco hid this to an extent because unlike Spain there are no real high speed sweepers, just short changes of direction.
The next race in Silverstone demands high downforce because of all the high speed sweepers, although not as extreme as the everlasting turns in Spain, a good portion of the turns are taken at speeds over 130 kph.
Edit: Maybe Hamilton has trouble trusting the suspension because he's used to knowing how much brake to apply from sensing how much downforce is on the car, with the McLaren it was different, the downforce to grip ratio was more linear. With this new car the ratio is not as apparent which throws him off. Rosberg seems to not have this problem as he's had to drive a car with less downforce for two years already so there it's been easier for him to adapt.
godlameroso wrote:Consider this: Maybe this car just doesn't have the overall downforce of the Ferrari, or Red Bull however, it has a cracking suspension system that lets it get on the power early, and brake late as hell. So what happens when this car needs to go around a high speed corner since it doesn't have as much overall downforce? It needs to break a little earlier so that it can get a faster exit, and since your suspension let's you break super late, braking a little early to maximize your launch is essentially braking the same as everyone else.
So the suspension does it's job and the car gets a great launch out of the corner, all is well. Or is it? Getting on the power earlier means you're asking the rear of the car to handle all the loading, because if you had more downforce at the front you could just turn the car, but because you don't have as much overall downforce you can't just turn the wheel and generate more lateral travel you need to power out of the corner to maximize your suspension and newly implemented exhaust blown ramp. Combine this with tires that do not like to be spun, locked up, or otherwise abused and you have the recipe for a car that eats the rear tires. Canada and Monaco hid this to an extent because unlike Spain there are no real high speed sweepers, just short changes of direction.
The next race in Silverstone demands high downforce because of all the high speed sweepers, although not as extreme as the everlasting turns in Spain, a good portion of the turns are taken at speeds over 130 kph.
At skysports they made a very stunning analysis how the mercedes took the chicane en route to the wall. In general cars can't run too high over the curbs because that will make the car bounce too much, sending the car in the direction of the wall. Mercedes their fric system however transfers weight between the wheels, which keeps the car very stable. The result is that their cars can tackle that last chicane, and for that matter any slow cornerwork on any circuit, much more agressive.
turbof1 wrote:
At skysports they made a very stunning analysis how the mercedes took the chicane en route to the wall. In general cars can't run too high over the curbs because that will make the car bounce too much, sending the car in the direction of the wall. Mercedes their fric system however transfers weight between the wheels, which keeps the car very stable. The result is that their cars can tackle that last chicane, and for that matter any slow cornerwork on any circuit, much more agressive.
That's correct. I've heard it described as a car with multiple personalities as the suspension behaves differently depending on the speed of the car. We see a very soft W04 and hard W04 over the course of a lap.
Regarding this brakes thing, i think people have been too focused on brake materials and suppliers (personally i find hard to believe that someone like Hamilton would have so much trouble with just pedal feel, different bite point, from what he was used to), when perhaps this could be due to the car aero balance and suspension setup.
Until we hear the specifics it's hard to know exactly.
mercedes has done a good job but, if mclaren wouldnt have brought a brand new car this year they would be looking pretty bad in both driver and manufacturer points. i hope they can solve their problems, im a big hamilton fan. i think their problems are with the fric system and weight transfer.
Regarding this brakes thing, i think people have been too focused on brake materials and suppliers (personally i find hard to believe that someone like Hamilton would have so much trouble with just pedal feel, different bite point, from what he was used to), when perhaps this could be due to the car aero balance and suspension setup.
Until we hear the specifics it's hard to know exactly.
He previously said that it's very difficult to match the brakes with the aero load as the car slows down. Maybe the aero package is less linear than the McLaren which is no doubt a benefit of running the car so stiff and level.
Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)
Regarding this brakes thing, i think people have been too focused on brake materials and suppliers (personally i find hard to believe that someone like Hamilton would have so much trouble with just pedal feel, different bite point, from what he was used to), when perhaps this could be due to the car aero balance and suspension setup.
Until we hear the specifics it's hard to know exactly.
He previously said that it's very difficult to match the brakes with the aero load as the car slows down. Maybe the aero package is less linear than the McLaren which is no doubt a benefit of running the car so stiff and level.
Gentlemen, Hamilton himself (and I quote) said: "its got to with calipers and those kind of things" - Merc uses a different caliper suppliers run a different number of calipers than McL so even though HAM's got the same disk as McL, he doesn't have the same master cylinder, nor does he have the same routing, and he himself said he doesn't have the same number and type of calipers - has nothing to do with Fric and has everything to do with the fact that the feedback isn't the same he's used to more running in the car and he'll either get more comfortable or they'll alter it
so you're saying they have lack of downforce but their fuel consumption is ok?
so tell me how on earth are they so bloody fast in qualy? still lack of downforce? and then extremly losing positions in race? definitely not corelated with fuel right. yeah excellent job
