Aerospace & Automobile coexistence

[Pavan_MP423]

Hi everyone, I've been recruited as an Intern at National Aerospace Laboratory ( NAL ). It's strange that for an undergraduate Mechanical Engineering student like me who's field of interest being Automobile , is undergoing a 6-week training at NAL.
I can extend this opportunity to a fine extent. I mean, the division in which I'm doing Intern could provide funds for my final year project & possibly guide me to publish a research paper.

Anyways, coming to the topic. I must interlink my field of interest(Automotive) to what is about to unfold in my Engineering career in the next few months.
Obviously, parameters like aerodynamics contributes to the performance of F1 cars significantly. What are the other sections of Aerospace which can be incorporated? Please give me an insight of the level of gravity Aerospace holds in the Automobile segment? As I emphasized earlier, I need to correlate between the above two branches and figure out their way of coexistence. This would in turn help me in avoiding to take a detour from my field of interest.


Cheers!
Have a great day.
Drive safe

[Kiril Varbanov]

Connect the materials used in aerospace and subsequently in cars. For example I remember a project which involved BMW and some aerospace firms, AFAIR it was Boeing, for recycling carbon fibers from composites.

Think about safety standards and reliability testing. Use of wind tunnels and related aerospace techniques for lowering the cars' cD is quote obvious, right? I remember how Toyota Supra's 0.32 was a hot shot back in 1988 - this has improved to 0.25 in Mercedes-Benz CLA.

[amouzouris]

One very interesting connection I think is the hydraulic actuators that an increasing number of manufacturers incorporate into their design. I can't recall at the moment where i read it but it said that the hydraulic actuators used to raise lower and change the angle of attack on the Bugatti Veyron are strong enough to be used to operate the flaps on an aeroplane. A lot of new supercars and sports cars have movable rear wings.

[WilO]

You might consider linking the stability/controls systems used for envelope control of an aircraft to some of the vehicle stability systems being researched for ground vehicles. I think an excellent place to start and gain some background and history would be William Milliken's autobiography "Equations of Motion". Race Car Vehicle Dynamics takes an aerospace view of car dynamics, obviously.
I know there are several vehicle stability systems being researched right now, it seems that Stanford University here in the US has secured some funding for this. A search on the topic will likely yield some doctoral dissertations that might be helpful.

Have fun with it.

[Greg Locock]

The engineering world is not that specialised, do the stuff that interests you, your enthusiasm and willingness to dive deeper will more than make up for any apparent irrelevance of the subject matter to your chosen field as you see it now.

[Pavan_MP423]

One very interesting connection I think is the hydraulic actuators that an increasing number of manufacturers incorporate into their design. I can't recall at the moment where i read it but it said that the hydraulic actuators used to raise lower and change the angle of attack on the Bugatti Veyron are strong enough to be used to operate the flaps on an aeroplane. A lot of new supercars and sports cars have movable rear wings.

Hydraulic actuators doesn't really form a basis to interlink the above fields, does it? That goes out purely into Design domain

[olefud]

One very interesting connection I think is the hydraulic actuators that an increasing number of manufacturers incorporate into their design. I can't recall at the moment where i read it but it said that the hydraulic actuators used to raise lower and change the angle of attack on the Bugatti Veyron are strong enough to be used to operate the flaps on an aeroplane. A lot of new supercars and sports cars have movable rear wings.

Hydraulic actuators doesn't really form a basis to interlink the above fields, does it? That goes out purely into Design domain

Worrying too much about direct application would probably be a mistake. Your opportunity is more in the cross-discipline area. Once you have an array of potential “answers” the questions will present themselves.

It’s just my impression, but it appears to me that Britain’s strong standing in motorsports largely resulted from the WWII aero expertise that was dumped after hostilities ceased. Aerospace is more cutting edge and tends generally to trickle down to automotive. So soak it in.

[Pavan_MP423]

I have a question for all of you: Does the R & D division of mid-segment(mainly commercial vehicles, V8s & above exempted) Car manufacturing unit generally have Wind tunnel facility?

[Greg Locock]

No.

Manufacturing sites rarely need wind tunnels (i suppose you might use them to check cars off the end of the line for windnoise but I don't know of one that does that).

Even world class product development facilities often do not have them. It is very common to ship clays or vehicles overseas for windtunnel work, whether from the UK to Europe, or from Australia to anywhere, for example. 30 years ago it was cheaper for a non BL manufacturer to ship a car to the Fiat windtunnel than to test it in the one at Gaydon, for example. There's also the issue that not all windtunnels are equal and if you are working on a global program you might need to use a particular tunnel for comparisons with previous tests.

[aussiegman]

Lamborghini was partnered with Boeing for a recent composities project used in the Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera which was one of the first full carbon chassis for Lamborghini.

Lamborghini has even initiated a new Automobili Lamborghini Advanced Composite Structures Laboratory (ACSL) within the University of Washington in Seattle.

Lamborghini uses the ACSL to research work in aeronautics and astronautics as well as applications within the automotive sector where it partners with Boeing.

So linking the materials science and the aerodynamics similarities between aero and auto you could be OK.

[Pavan_MP423]

Thanks for the insight everyone
Really appreciate that.

[Callum]

As (kindof) previously mentioned I would go with adjustable aerodynamics.

It might be interesting to see the difference in the improvements you can make on a car between passive and active changes. As far as I know there is currently a Ferrari that has a passive moveable front aero device (small wings in the nose)

You could then compare the two and find out how much more difficult/costly the active aero would be.

Just an idea.

[CBeck113]

There are so many areas, such as aerodynamics and materials, but also the design and manufacturing areas should not be left out. The aero industry has the highest design safety standards and still has to design to costs, which is the main driver in automotive design today (or did VW really need to bring the Golf VII that early for a different reason? ). It would also be interesting to develop quality control methods for composit materials in road cars, since this could be the future (if the materials hold in this application, which no one really knows yet). Will we have to X-Ray vehicle chassis periodically to insure that they haven't been damaged? That would make them extremely expensive over the life of the car, but Boeing will be doing this for the 787.
There are many areas, and if you think a little "out of the box", you can find something beyond the obvious (communications? electronics? x-by-wire?).... good luck!

[riff_raff]

Aerospace engineering jobs generally pay better than automotive engineering. Unfortunately, the total number of aero engineering jobs available in the US, whether it's aerospace or automotive, is fairly limited. There is a huge demand for composite structures engineers in US aerospace, and the starting salaries are quite good. Overall, the field that has the highest earning potential is having expertise at writing code for engineering software applications. You can earn over $100/hr doing this work as a consultant.

[rssh]

NAL in India is a bit primitive if you can say so compared to other countries. Just get along with the internship because even if you know the principles of aeronautics they explain the details about the various other issues one faces with newer designs . Also in relation to on road cars their isn't much an engineer can do before the design is approved by the designer . Engineers can only make the design provided more efficient and improve the coefficient of drag . You need to first understand the basics of aerospace technology and afterwards apply in different fields in future.