Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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Cocles
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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marcush. wrote:you´re kidding ..are you ? it may be behind FIA and MGP but rest assured every time a Merc does well we hear the ferrari and REDBull fanfare....and rightly so.
Because Ferrari, Red Bull, and even McLaren don't also pull this stuff?

At the end of the day, this is F1. If you're NOT attempting stuff like this, you're doing it wrong. As a Merc fan, I'm thrilled that they did this, because "skirting the rules and getting away with it" is a key characteristic of championship winning teams.

Add to that the strengthened bond Mercedes now has with Pirelli and this whole endeavor could be considered a master stroke only outdone by their obtaining a seat on the FOM board.

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FoxHound
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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marcush. wrote:it may be behind FIA and MGP but rest assured every time a Merc does well we hear the ferrari and REDBull fanfare
Can you prove this?
I have read only Horner and Mateschitz speak bad of Mercedes at Monaco.
Very big statements you are making, would be nice if you could provide some form of reference.
marcush. wrote:and rightly so.
Your opinion. My opinion, wrongly so. Why should Ferrari and Red bull protest every time Mercedes do well? The tribunals findings in the test case showed that Mercedes had "no intent" to "cheat" or commit a rule violation.
Not only that but Whiting in fact gave a green light for the test to go ahead.
marcush. wrote:I like RedBulls standpoint of not breaking the rules
No, Red bull are 100% whiter than white. :o
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bhall
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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Cocles wrote:[...]

Add to that the strengthened bond Mercedes now has with Pirelli and this whole endeavor could be considered a master stroke only outdone by their obtaining a seat on the FOM board.
:lol:

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read here.
Last edited by bhall on 26 Jun 2013, 02:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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MGP's sudden improvement in race pace, as a result from their three race-distances worth of free testing, will soon taper off, why I'm certain that MrE and CW will coerce Pirelli to ask them for yet another "tire-test" after the summer.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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diego1960
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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First of all, welcome back x! :D

As for Mercedes, did their race-pace REALLY improve though? Lewis was a sitting duck for Fernando, Red-Bull and Ferrari are still miles ahead. I don't know if we can really talk about an improvement just yet.

You are a supporter of the idea "Mercedes is an asset for F1, therefore it must be successful", aren't you x? I believe it is valid up to a point, and one can only guess about the politics hidden in many decisions the past few weeks. If i remember correctly, MrE had played a role in Hamilton joining Mercedes, isn't that so? That could be another hint of what it is to come, can't it?

Interesting times, although I would rather have a "battle" on track than behind closed doors in secret counsils...
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose." - Ayrton Senna

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Cocles
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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bhallg2k wrote:
Cocles wrote:[...]

Add to that the strengthened bond Mercedes now has with Pirelli and this whole endeavor could be considered a master stroke only outdone by their obtaining a seat on the FOM board.
:lol:

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read here.
If you disagree that's fine, but there's no reason to be a knob about it.

I don't see it as ridiculous. This is a situation where if Mercedes and been severely penalized they'd have egg on their face, but having only received a slap on the wrist they look like geniuses.

Being the only team willing to risk using a 2013 car could have only strengthened their relationship with Pirelli (and Hembery comes across as a guy who keeps score). It certainly wouldn't have harmed it.

Mercedes also managed to finagle track time for Hamilton to further acclimate him to the car while the season is still young, let alone whatever else they learned.

Obviously this all required some slick political work to pull off with only a slap on the wrist, and they indeed pulled it off.

As for my FOM comment, I was impressed with Merc's political maneuvering when they managed to get Uebber on the board. If you disagree, consider where Merc and Renault F1 were in 2009 and where they are now. Merc has a seat on the board and is pulling off stuff like this mid-season test, whereas Renault F1 aren't even allotted their own pit passes and their works partner has "Infiniti" written all over it.

It has taken some time, but Mercedes is finally bringing it --both on and off track. It's a good time to be a Merc fan.

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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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diego1960 wrote:First of all, welcome back x! :D
...
Thanks, but it's just a short guest appearance due to certain topics of interest at the moment.
diego1960 wrote: ...
You are a supporter of the idea "Mercedes is an asset for F1, therefore it must be successful", aren't you x?
...
Now where did you get that idea? But seriously, MrE is painfully aware that his F1 is at the crossroads, these 20 MUSD engines are very likely to finish off two or three teams in the coming seasons and there are no new on the horizon, while LMP1 is attracting the manufacturers. In that context, he has to keep the three-pointed star at any cost.

The tires is the key to performance today, just consider Maldonado's absurd win coinciding with FW's 70th birthday?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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SectorOne
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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I don´t think they are any closer to solving the tire issues, it´s just been the tracks that have hidden it some more.
If you were to bring on Bahrain again i´m positive the result would be the same.

Regardless of what improvements that have been done it´s still a 2-3 year old problem that will not be fixed during a week between two races.
I´m guessing F1 will move out of that type of compound before they really understand what caused their problems.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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FoxHound
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... -test.html

Valid point by Brawn.

Mercedes lost out on the testing side, as the YDT test is a full blown test for updates, tyres etc. Incomparable to the Pirelli test.
I guess Horner and Mateschitz bleating did what they where intended to do.
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elf341
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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I'm convinced Brawn knew the test would be exceedingly risky, but I think it represented a long-term strategic objective and their actual aim was to embed a sizable Mercedes W0x-lineage-specific data-set in Pirelli's research database. Any tyres Pirelli tyres developed in the next few years, or tyre choices made for particular circuits, will now be influenced by this data set.

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FoxHound
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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elf341 wrote:their actual aim was to embed a sizable Mercedes W0x-lineage-specific data-set in Pirelli's research database. Any tyres Pirelli tyres developed in the next few years, or tyre choices made for particular circuits, will now be influenced by this data set.
I go along with that. Hasn't hurt Lotus much.... 8)
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diego.liv
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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elf341 wrote:I'm convinced Brawn knew the test would be exceedingly risky, but I think it represented a long-term strategic objective and their actual aim was to embed a sizable Mercedes W0x-lineage-specific data-set in Pirelli's research database. Any tyres Pirelli tyres developed in the next few years, or tyre choices made for particular circuits, will now be influenced by this data set.
Something like what we have seen on Renault-then-Lotus those past years?

elf341
elf341
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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diego.liv wrote:
elf341 wrote:I'm convinced Brawn knew the test would be exceedingly risky, but I think it represented a long-term strategic objective and their actual aim was to embed a sizable Mercedes W0x-lineage-specific data-set in Pirelli's research database. Any tyres Pirelli tyres developed in the next few years, or tyre choices made for particular circuits, will now be influenced by this data set.
Something like what we have seen on Renault-then-Lotus those past years?
Indeed. It was no surprise to me when the 2013 tires were being completely shredded by the RB9 after just a single lap in pre-season testing, and yet the Lotus and the Ferrari who both supplied their 2010 cars to Pirelli last year were 'somehow' able to get acceptable performance without making the drastic car changes Red Bull were forced to make.

monsi
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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If so then the reported dismal response by most teams to Pirelli's requests for tests could be seen as a significant strategic error on their part.

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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

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monsi wrote:If so then the reported dismal response by most teams to Pirelli's requests for tests could be seen as a significant strategic error on their part.
More like a token of a naive trust in both the rules and a gentlemen's agreement between teams.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"