2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[WhiteBlue]

Everything in these engines will move towards higher efficiency closer to the conditions in diesel engines. Compression will probably be very high (>10) as I expect almost complete compression (-5°TDC) before injection. Combustion should be spray guided with centrally positioned and outward opening nozzles and very lean - probably close to stoichiometric or even with air surplus. They will certainly use new and innovative injection systems with very high pressure (500 bar) that isn't used anywhere else in motor sport yet. LMP1 will probably use similar technologies in 2014. My money is on a new piezo system by Bosch also with a new pump and potentially an exotic pump principle. They could be using even more than 500 bar (1000 bar) by now and we would not know it, because the agreement for a regulation update could have come through by directive and be unpublished. I would not be surprised to see very efficient axial exhaust turbines. Nothing is too expensive as long as it is allowed. They are allowed one single stage turbine. Generally we may expect another update of the regulations on the FiA web site any time now and I would not be surprised to see significant changes to important items that are handled with great restriction until now like variable valves or nozzles. We have a precedent when we look at the regulation changes that occurred between June 2012 and December 2012. They were massive. I reckon something similar has happened in the last six months.

[pgfpro]

Everything in these engines will move towards higher efficiency closer to the conditions in diesel engines. Compression will probably be very high (>10) as I expect almost complete compression (-5°TDC) before injection. Combustion should be spray guided with centrally positioned and outward opening nozzles and very lean - probably close to stoichiometric or even with air surplus. They will certainly use new and innovative injection systems with very high pressure (500 bar) that isn't used anywhere else in motor sport yet. LMP1 will probably use similar technologies in 2014. My money is on a new piezo system by Bosch also with a new pump and potentially an exotic pump principle. They could be using even more than 500 bar (1000 bar) by now and we would not know it, because the agreement for a regulation update could have come through by directive and be unpublished. I would not be surprised to see very efficient axial exhaust turbines. Nothing is too expensive as long as it is allowed. They are allowed one single stage turbine. Generally we may expect another update of the regulations on the FiA web site any time now and I would not be surprised to see significant changes to important items that are handled with great restriction until now like variable valves or nozzles. We have a precedent when we look at the regulation changes that occurred between June 2012 and December 2012. They were massive. I reckon something similar has happened in the last six months.

Very well said WB!!!

I agree 100% and can't even add anything to your last statement.

[xpensive]

The incentives for efficiency is obvious thanks to the flow-limit, right WB ? , but I feel they should have given more room for engine developments such as cylinder-bore and orientation, valve train and timing/duration, that would have been xciting.

[langwadt]

The incentives for efficiency is obvious thanks to the flow-limit, right WB ? , but I feel they should have given more room for engine developments such as cylinder-bore and orientation, valve train and timing/duration, that would have been xciting.

they leave such high tech stuff to the big guys in LMP1 :p

[ringo]

Well nothing ground breaking in terms of increasing thermal efficiency. Most of tech mentioned is for partial load conditions.
As for 900hp, under full load, i don't think the engine will be anywhere near 35% efficiency, or near that power level in the first place, this is from calculation.
In fact companies like toyota are aiming for 40% with much more advanced tech that we are getting with these cars; and this for cars like the prius.
900hp just wont happen. I can't see it.

[ringo]

What would be interesting is if the alternator was elimiated, since there are various batteries and motors on the car.
This would remove the parasitic load of the alternator.

[xpensive]

What would be interesting is if the alternator was elimiated, since there are various batteries and motors on the car.
This would remove the parasitic load of the alternator.

An interesting point, never thought about it, even if the losses are minimal if unloaded.

[WhiteBlue]

Well nothing ground breaking in terms of increasing thermal efficiency. Most of tech mentioned is for partial load conditions.
As for 900hp, under full load, i don't think the engine will be anywhere near 35% efficiency, or near that power level in the first place, this is from calculation.

900 is not really something from reliable sources as we have already said. But 800 is more than likely in 2014 IMO.
The improved combustion has to bring significant efficiency gains. That is the reason why they are allowed to do super high injection pressures. To be able to get efficient combustion at peak power. So I have to disagree on that point. Injection and combustion will be absolutely crucial points for those engines. They were already when Audi ran petrol LMP1s. They will continue where Audi stopped at that time. And a high thermal recovery rate of the turbine. That is where I see the focus. Despite Ferrari's bitching the FiA will not relax the fuel limits. So efficiency is the only way to increase performance.

[Huntresa]

Was just reading autosport article from ferrari on next years engine and i had forgotten each driver can only use 5 next year and then penaltys for new ones.

"The 2014 regulations divide the power units into a six modules, with drivers allowed to mix and match their allowance for five of each one.

A 10-place grid penalty will be applied if a sixth example of any of the modules is introduced, while the replacement of a complete engine will put a car to the back.

"The target is to have four power units per driver, per season, the five power units was set for the first year just to allow for some problems," said Marmorini when asked about the penalty system by AUTOSPORT.

"The idea is to split the engine into six units, so you will have five turbocompressors, five internal combustion engines, five power unit electronics and you can swap them.

"The first time you use the sixth turbocompressor or engine, you will have a 10 grid position penalty and if you change the whole unit you start from the back.

"To prevent you strategically changing the complete power unit if you are at the back of the grid after qualifying, if the sum of the penalty exceeds the last position, you will transfer the penalty to the race after."

[djos]

I miss the days of 1 engine and 1 gearbox per race weekend!

[langwadt]

I miss the days of 1 engine and 1 gearbox per race weekend!

didn't they at one point have one for training, one for qualifying and one for race?

not much sleep for the mechanics

[djos]

I miss the days of 1 engine and 1 gearbox per race weekend!

didn't they at one point have one for training, one for qualifying and one for race?

not much sleep for the mechanics

Yeah there were no real limits to how many you could use but the 1 per weekend rule was sensible IMO and didn't penalize drivers for mechanical failures for the next race.

[Cold Fussion]

I miss the days of 1 engine and 1 gearbox per race weekend!

I get your point, but it is kinda cool how reliable the new engines will be with similar power to the 1988 turbo engines, except now the same engine could potentially run a whole Le Mans race.

[djos]

I miss the days of 1 engine and 1 gearbox per race weekend!

I get your point, but it is kinda cool how reliable the new engines will be with similar power to the 1988 turbo engines, except now the same engine could potentially run a whole Le Mans race.

Errr the Turbo's I was watching in the 80's had 1000-1500HP in Qually trim and 800-900HP in the Race, the new ones will be 800'ish HP all the time from what we know - sure the reliability will be impressive but 80's Turbo's really sorted the men from the boys imo.

PS, the qually motors where nicknamed "hand grenades" because they lasted for about 5mins before detonating!

[WhiteBlue]

And what is supposed to be the point of all that waste? I thought that we primarily want performance and good motor racing. If that can be done with higher efficiency, less waste and less power I'm all for it. Modern technology achieves the same performance with much less resources. It has to. We are beyond peak oil and sustainability is an issue that touches every engineer who works in racing or in the mobility industry. So nostalgic petrol head glory helps nothing with the issues we are facing today.