Mercedes AMG F1 W04

[beelsebob]

Okay, so just to clear this up, will the kevlar tyres require more energy to be put through them in order to heat them up?

Yes, but also no. My understanding is that the 2012 tyres, in having a harder side wall put proportionally more of energy into the suspension, rather than the tyre. The 2013 tyres meanwhile soak up more energy, and put less into the suspension. The result is that while (at a guess) the two need the same amount of energy to heat them up, the 2013 tyres get more of the energy of the car's movement put into them than the 2012 tyres did.

Thus, yes, it needs more energy in terms of the total energy of the car driving over bumps/breaking/accelerating/generally compressing the suspension and tyre to heat them up
But also, no, it doesn't need any more energy in terms of the total energy received by the tyre to heat them up.

That all said, most of this is hearsay and conjecture, so it could all be complete bollocks.

[dans79]

Okay, so just to clear this up, will the kevlar tyres require more energy to be put through them in order to heat them up?

kevlar will require less energy to heat up, because it has a lower thermal capacity, steel has a high thermal capacity hence the reason it take longer to heat up steel belted tires. The inverse works as well, kevlar is easier to cool off, because it holds less heat than steel.

[theformula]

Okay, so just to clear this up, will the kevlar tyres require more energy to be put through them in order to heat them up?

kevlar will require less energy to heat up, because it has a lower thermal capacity, steel has a high thermal capacity hence the reason it take longer to heat up steel belted tires. The inverse works as well, kevlar is easier to cool off, because it holds less heat than steel.

Ok, so i'm getting quite confused here. It requires less energy to heat up, so how does that hinder ferrari and lotus? I saw the comment saying operating temp and operating window are not the same things, but I still don't understand how it will benefit mercedes? Can anyone clear this up for me lol, sorry!

[Tim.Wright]

Okay, so just to clear this up, will the kevlar tyres require more energy to be put through them in order to heat them up?

kevlar will require less energy to heat up, because it has a lower thermal capacity, steel has a high thermal capacity hence the reason it take longer to heat up steel belted tires. The inverse works as well, kevlar is easier to cool off, because it holds less heat than steel.

Ok, so i'm getting quite confused here. It requires less energy to heat up, so how does that hinder ferrari and lotus? I saw the comment saying operating temp and operating window are not the same things, but I still don't understand how it will benefit mercedes? Can anyone clear this up for me lol, sorry!

I dont agree that Kevlar requires less energy than steel. Quite the opposite. Have a look at the specific heat for the two materials:
Steel 0.470 - 0.519 J/g-°C
Kevlar fibre 1.42 J/g-°C

It takes nearly 3 times the amount of energy to heat up Kevlar by 1deg compared to steel.

Also, I'd guess one reason that the steel runs hotter is it creates its own heat as is flexes and releases. Kevlar, I imagine, doesn't behave like that.

[beelsebob]

kevlar will require less energy to heat up, because it has a lower thermal capacity, steel has a high thermal capacity hence the reason it take longer to heat up steel belted tires. The inverse works as well, kevlar is easier to cool off, because it holds less heat than steel.

Ok, so i'm getting quite confused here. It requires less energy to heat up, so how does that hinder ferrari and lotus? I saw the comment saying operating temp and operating window are not the same things, but I still don't understand how it will benefit mercedes? Can anyone clear this up for me lol, sorry!

I dont agree that Kevlar requires less energy than steel. Quite the opposite. Have a look at the specific heat for the two materials:
Steel 0.470 - 0.519 J/g-°C
Kevlar fibre 1.42 J/g-°C

It takes nearly 3 times the amount of energy to heat up Kevlar by 1deg compared to steel.

Also, I'd guess one reason that the steel runs hotter is it creates its own heat as is flexes and releases. Kevlar, I imagine, doesn't behave like that.

Not forgetting that the side walls on the 2013 tyres are weaker, meaning they flex more, and absorb more energy that used to be absorbed by the suspension. As I said just above.

[dans79]

I dont agree that Kevlar requires less energy than steel. Quite the opposite. Have a look at the specific heat for the two materials:
Steel 0.470 - 0.519 J/g-°C
Kevlar fibre 1.42 J/g-°C

It takes nearly 3 times the amount of energy to heat up Kevlar by 1deg compared to steel.

Also, I'd guess one reason that the steel runs hotter is it creates its own heat as is flexes and releases. Kevlar, I imagine, doesn't behave like that.

I was trying to keep it simple, but the full on picture is more complicated, as kevlar depending on the grade has a much higher strength to weight to ratio, so you don't use as much of it. also as you suggested other differences exist, some I'm not sure how to explain other than with an example.

[Mika1]

"Furthermore, if the Kevlar-belted tyre that Pirelli wished to introduce from Canada but was prevented from doing, is now introduced, it will have the side effect of reducing rear temperatures by around 10-deg C. This will be of enormous help to Mercedes, giving it a much better chance of maintaining its dazzling qualifying form into the races - possibly to such an extent that we may see one or both of the Mercedes drivers coming back at Vettel in the championship".

Sky Sports F1

[theformula]

"Furthermore, if the Kevlar-belted tyre that Pirelli wished to introduce from Canada but was prevented from doing, is now introduced, it will have the side effect of reducing rear temperatures by around 10-deg C. This will be of enormous help to Mercedes, giving it a much better chance of maintaining its dazzling qualifying form into the races - possibly to such an extent that we may see one or both of the Mercedes drivers coming back at Vettel in the championship".

Sky Sports F1

Yup, just read that. Here's hoping it will help the merc's!

[Timstr]

I don't think they need help. The problem seems to have been solved largely.

[diego.liv]

I'm posting this both here and in Team thread:
Last year, Jerez 1st winter test Mercedes used the W02 "...to understand the tyres better..."

Could be very useful to ask Pirelli to attend the 500km test with 2 years old car (right the W02)? I know Merc has all 2012 tyres-data, but since they won't run Silverstone 2012-tyres test next july (during which, other teams will have direct comparison between '12car-'12tyres AND '13car-'12tyres), Merc can make the comparison between '11car-'12tyres (from Jerez2012 and this year 2years-old-car-test) to TRANSFER INFOS TO '13car-'12tyres

[NewtonMeter]

I don't think they need help. The problem seems to have been solved largely.

Don't know about you, but if it makes them even faster I'm not going to say no.

[SectorOne]

Or its back to 2012 nightmare

No but hopefully not.

[SiLo]

Yeah, hopefully this helps the team and helps the car, I'm really hoping at some point that someone finds out just exactly what it was causing all the problems, or whether it was just a range of things that contributed to the whole effect of heating the tyres too much.

[WhiteBlue]

Okay, so just to clear this up, will the kevlar tyres require more energy to be put through them in order to heat them up?

kevlar will require less energy to heat up, because it has a lower thermal capacity, steel has a high thermal capacity hence the reason it take longer to heat up steel belted tires. The inverse works as well, kevlar is easier to cool off, because it holds less heat than steel.

I believe the issue is more complex. It also depends of the flexibility of the sidewalls. The stiffer the design the more energy is needed or dissipated when you drive it on track.
All these factors come together and in the end you get a tyre with certain properties like operating temperature window that is higher, lower, wider or narrower.
The steel belted 2013 tyres reportedly have a narrower window and they run 10 centigrade hotter.
The traditional problem at Mercedes was too much energy input. In the race the tyres would overheat and destroy themselves quickly. The problem was more severe this year because the window was narrower.
I would assume that for Merc life will become easier with the new tyres, but time will tell.

[SamH123]

Now swapping tyres from side to side is banned, might this affect the W04?
The team seems to have done a lot better since doing this