Best driver performance over a season of all time?

[sennafan24]

Michal Schumacher 97, 98 and 2000. Simply a genious in his peak. And in general the 95-2000 years of the german were the best.

2003 Raikkonen, he was very young but he showed an amazing regularity.

2005 Raikkonen, he was fast as hell, but that car...

2011 Button, his best year.

2012 Alonso, perfect season ruined by a not so good car.

2013 until now, Vettel, the most complete season, showing a greater maturity as a driver.

Great choices.

Agreed on Schumi's prime also, give or take a few years.

[WhiteBlue]

Our cars were very similar at start of the season, we fought on the same level against each other. I had said in the second half [of 2012] that I am not fighting against Sebastian or Mark [Webber], but against an aeroplane – the pace of the Red Bull was that strong. Maybe some people misunderstood me as I was simply trying to say that it’s hard to fight against a car that has the potential to finish first and second in every race. That is no longer the case this year. Sebastian is ahead because he is doing the best job.

So Alonso thinks Vettel is on track to qualify for a place on the list.

[JimClarkFan]

Well a few pages have went by so I thought I would give my view.

For me the stand out performance is Fernando during the 2012 season. As a person that was never an Alonso fan after 2007 (rightly or wrongly) I was left flabbergasted by just how good Alonso was last year. I don't think I have ever seen anyone race like that in a car which was so far down the pecking order. I don't think I have ever seen anyone perform at such a consistently high level week in and week out.

At the start of the season I was surprised to see the Ferrari's so far down even after all the preseason talk which said Ferrari where in trouble. Not that I cared, as a Mclaren fan all I wanted to see was red bull denied another champship. But Alonso kept putting that Ferrari high up the grid in quali compared to Massa and was finishing each race strongly. No one had Alonso on for a win in Malaysia, but there he was, he had used his smarts to win and fended off Perez, so far nothing extraordinary but I took notice.

The points continued to rack up for Alonso, and people started to mutter about his brilliance, as yet I wasn't convinced.

I remember the wet races in Silverstone and Hokkenheim, where Ferrari had been relatively nowhere in qualifying until then, sitting on the couch and watching Alonso stick it on pole position two weeks in a row and now leading the WDC in a car that had no right to be there. Hockenheim proved Silverstone was no fluke, and I actually couldn't believe it. I spent a good amount of time looking at the pole laps, scratching my head at his unconventional lines in the wet. A long time Alonso hater, had become a fully fledged Alonso fan over the course of two weekends when his brilliance was confirmed as if an epiphany.

I was expecting Fernando to tail off as the season went on, but he never did, a racing incident at Japan being maybe his only solitary mistake in a faultless season (debatable it was his fault). Even to the very end, as the red bull continued to get better whilst Ferrari faltered Alonso was continually putting the car on the podium. I can't remember a time when I have ever been as devastated watching TV as I when Vettel took the title at the last race. I think I hated Vettel and his luck during that race, luck which Alonso didn't have in Suzuka. Now I feel Grosjean lost Alonso the title, and worse, he nearly took Alonso's life at Spa.

When Jake Humphries suggested that Alonso might be the greatest racing driver ever during a flippant remark on TV, I wasn't repulsed by the idea... such was the turn around in my opinion.

Oddly enough, another person I am starting to rate much more highly is Vettel. This year especially, I see a bit of Alonso in Vettel, he is always there or there abouts, he has an uncanny neck of getting the car to the sharp end of the grid even when the car hasn't looked nearly as dominant in the past two years. Two years ago I thought of him as a fast qualifier in clearly the best car. The only person he was beating was Webber. Now I genuinely think Vettel is one of the best on the grid, no question.

But who am I kidding. The best driver performance over a season belongs to Alonso for me. It will be a long time before we see such a performance like that again.

[timbo]

I would put Lewis hamilton performance in his debut season on the list. Until final two races he was simply amazing.

[Gerhard Berger]

When you can make your car look more dominant then it is, you are putting together one hell of a performance. For that, Schumacher 2004 and Vettel 2011.

Why not include Mansell in 1992 then? I really fail to understand how you know exactly how dominant each car was.

I think Schumacher had more impressive years than 2004. 95-00 it was great seeing Schumacher fighting for the championship against the superior Newey cars. To me it's more impressive to see a fight with the top guys despite having an ill handling or slower car.

Vettel's seasons was very impressive, his most impressive to date, though the way he's driving this year, he could eclipse it.

Almost but not quite
In 2012, Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton all three had very impressive performances, each having their own guardian angels to protect them and their own demons to fight, but they also each made their mistakes and I feel their over-all performance would not fit into the first category.

Let's be realistic here, the team principles voted Alonso as the best driver that year. The majority of fans, pundits and paddock experts said that Alonso was the best performer. You're free to have your opinion, but don't try and make out that the general opinion of the F1 community was divided as to who was the best driver that year.

[scotty86]

Just gonna throw something different out here rather than the obvious (Alonso 2012, Senna 1993, etc)... Olivier Panis 1997, until he sadly broke his legs. Not a full season, but that was some truly brilliant giant killing in the 7 or 8 races until that point.

Also Frentzen in '99. Whenever he finished, he finished in the points, and pretty much all DNF's were car failures. He was absolutely brilliant that season in a car that was not on the level of the McLaren or Ferrari.

[timbo]

Why not include Mansell in 1992 then? I really fail to understand how you know exactly how dominant each car was.

Yep, he was on fire. Managed to win IndyCar series next year on his debut there.

[Gerhard Berger]

Just gonna throw something different out here rather than the obvious (Alonso 2012, Senna 1993, etc)... Olivier Panis 1997, until he sadly broke his legs. Not a full season, but that was some truly brilliant giant killing in the 7 or 8 races until that point.

Also Frentzen in '99. Whenever he finished, he finished in the points, and pretty much all DNF's were car failures. He was absolutely brilliant that season in a car that was not on the level of the McLaren or Ferrari.

Good shout with Panis. I've always wondered what he might have achieved that season had he not broke his legs. Villeneuve himself admitted that Panis would have been a factor in the championship. I think he would have been strong in France and Hungary.

Also very good shout with HHF.

[sennafan24]

Good shout with Panis. I've always wondered what he might have achieved that season had he not broke his legs. Villeneuve himself admitted that Panis would have been a factor in the championship. I think he would have been strong in France and Hungary. .

Panis was third in the standing when he got injured (I just looked that up, I am not some anorak)

Looking at that year , the Prost did seem unreliable so maybe he would not have had the car consistency to be a contender. That does not mean it would not rank up there in terms of impressive seasons, as Lewis proved last year with his top notch performances in a team that messed up and a car that was unreliable.

So a obscure, but all in all good shout.

[Stradivarius]

I think that Schumacher 1994 was the best driver performance over a full season. His team mates were usually unable to even score points with the Benetton, while Schumacher showed that he was capable of winning every single race.

I could have mentioned Alonso 2012, because he looked very impressive for a long time. But I am afraid it was mostly Massa's underperformance that made people believe the car was crap and that Alonso was a magician. The car was bad at the very beginning of the season, as Alonsos results also showed, but then they improved the car while Massa kept struggling. However, in the last few races, Massa started to out-perform Alonso and Alonso even put himself out of the race at Suzuka, which may have cost him the title.

Apart from this, I think it is not very scientific to write off Vettel in 2011 or Schumacher in some of the best years with Ferrari just because the car was good. The fact that they won with a big margin can be partly explained by the car, but that doesn't mean the driver hasn't performed well. In 2001, Schumacher dominated, while Barrichello was beaten by Coulthard in the McLaren and barely beat Ralf Schumacher in the Williams, so the car alone wasn't enough to dominate. Similarly, Vettel won last year, in a car in which Webber only finished 6th. In 2011, Webber was beaten by Button overall. That also says something.

What can we expect from a driver in a dominant car? We can expect more than Damon Hill and Jaques Villeneuve did in the dominant Williams, but how much more can we exect, except that they dominate? If we assume that the best driver performance over a season of all time actually was a driver that also had the best car at the time, it seems many people here would write him off because of the dominant car.

[sennafan24]

I think that Schumacher 1994 was the best driver performance over a full season. His team mates were usually unable to even score points with the Benetton, while Schumacher showed that he was capable of winning every single race.

The problem you have there comes from speculation from the article below

http://grandprix247.com/2011/09/06/herb ... f1-career/

All of Schumi's teammates at Benetton have said the same thing, that Schumi was greatly favored. Irvine made no such complaints at Ferrari to be fair.

Also, who was he beating in 1994 after Senna died. Damon Hill was still underdeveloped and would not be at his best until 1996, and even then he was just a good/very good driver, never a great. The field was too thin, and Schumi was the only "great driver" in the field.

Schumi shined far brighter in my eyes taking on the Newey Monsters in the late 90's and 2000!

Webber himself admits he under-performed in 2011, and could not get used to the tyres or car. Plus, I believe Webber has been past his best since 2010. Vettel is a better driver than Webber by a hefty margin no doubt, but I still cannot consider Vettel's 2011 to be that great as Alonso had no chance to challenge him with the car difference, a bit like Mansell in 1992 out performing Senna and Schumi, I think it was more down to the car than anything that specific year.

[Gerhard Berger]

I think that Schumacher 1994 was the best driver performance over a full season. His team mates were usually unable to even score points with the Benetton, while Schumacher showed that he was capable of winning every single race.

I could have mentioned Alonso 2012, because he looked very impressive for a long time. But I am afraid it was mostly Massa's underperformance that made people believe the car was crap and that Alonso was a magician. The car was bad at the very beginning of the season, as Alonsos results also showed, but then they improved the car while Massa kept struggling. However, in the last few races, Massa started to out-perform Alonso and Alonso even put himself out of the race at Suzuka, which may have cost him the title.

Apart from this, I think it is not very scientific to write off Vettel in 2011 or Schumacher in some of the best years with Ferrari just because the car was good. The fact that they won with a big margin can be partly explained by the car, but that doesn't mean the driver hasn't performed well. In 2001, Schumacher dominated, while Barrichello was beaten by Coulthard in the McLaren and barely beat Ralf Schumacher in the Williams, so the car alone wasn't enough to dominate. Similarly, Vettel won last year, in a car in which Webber only finished 6th. In 2011, Webber was beaten by Button overall. That also says something.

What can we expect from a driver in a dominant car? We can expect more than Damon Hill and Jaques Villeneuve did in the dominant Williams, but how much more can we exect, except that they dominate? If we assume that the best driver performance over a season of all time actually was a driver that also had the best car at the time, it seems many people here would write him off because of the dominant car.

I think the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs contradict each other. You dismiss Alonso in 2012 because Massa was underperforming, yet how do you know that Barrichello did not underperform in 2001? or Webber in 2011?

[scotty86]

edit - wrong thread! Please delete.

[Just_a_fan]

[...]a bit like Mansell in 1992 out performing Senna and Schumi, I think it was more down to the car than anything that specific year.

To be fair to Mansell, he had always been quick throughout his F1 career. He was robbed of an earlier F1 title by a tyre blowout in the last race of 1986 (when he, along with Prost and Piquet were all able to win the title in that race).

He is fifth (soon to be sixth I would expect as Vettel will pass him this season) in the total F1 wins (31). No mean feat.

I'd say that Mansell was as quick as Senna or Schumi on his day. He certainly was as much a balls-out racing driver as ever there was in F1, that's for sure. And he got himself in to F1 - this is the guy who basically sold everything he had to pay for his racing in lower formulae. No silver spoon in the way that some drivers have with young driver programmes and wealthy fathers.

[sennafan24]

Mansell did deserve a WDC, due to the amount of bad fortune he had in 1986/1987. But 1992 for him was a year very much like Vettel's in 2011, they both had the best car and has the measure of a aging teammate they could outclass.

Like how Button, Alonso and Lewis struggled to outscore Vettel's teammate in 2011 (Only Jenson succeeded) Neither Scumi or Schumacher could outscore Mansell's teammate who was the ancient Ricardo Patrese. Any doubt the difference was driver related was dispelled the next year as Schumi more than doubled Patrese's points as teammate and Senna more than tripled Patrese's score despite Patrese having a better car than Senna for a good portion of the season.

1992 and 2011 is not great proof of a great driver in Mansell or Vettel, it is more a proof of a overpowered car in my opinion. That is not to say Vettel or Mansell are not great drivers, but they had the deck stacked greatly in their favor in the years mentioned.

I am a bit more open to Schumi in 2004, but Rubens finishing second by such a hefty margin over the likes of Kimi, JPM and Button makes me think that was more the car also.