2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[xpensive]

...
Those guys will have much on their plate as teams will also want fuels with high energy content per mass.
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Really, I had no idea?

[autogyro]

I feel I have just wasted over an hour watching this video.
It explained very little other than what we already know.
It was a brilliantly scripted promotion of the oil company Mobil which I suppose has to be done to match all the Ferrari hype about shell.
So much for road side available fuel being used in F1.

Perhaps a program with the real developers of F1 would be more informative?
The FIA design the whole thing these guys only do as they are told after all.

[1158]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKhu42yW ... 4qS56ggOVf

The Racer's Edge this week dedicated to 2014 engines.

Only 16 Min in at this point but it is already quite interesting.

Nice find!!! Do they have this every week?

Yeah Peter usually does a show every week. It has been a few weeks since the last one, but he usually does a preview show before a race weekend and wrap up the week after. Check out his archives when you have some time. Lost of good stuff in there.

[xpensive]

Right, Peter Windsor is the man with 24 carat credibility, every Formula One fan knows that.

[Tommy Cookers]

The mobile1 man confirmed that temperatures will be higher and that they are developing high knock resistant fuels for the DI.

the rules specify 87 Octane (using the mean of Research Octane Number and Motor Octane Number tests)
that is the definition of knock resistance
these tests specify the charge temperature

the potential for 'improving' on any apparent intent of the rules would appear to be much smaller than in the past
because the way to do this was to access the great increase in knock resistance from the Aromatics with mixture richening
and we will have neither rich mixtures nor a high Aromatic content

unless they know something they aren't telling us
or the 87 Octane is a minimum not a maximum

[1158]

Right, Peter Windsor is the man with 24 carat credibility, every Formula One fan knows that.

Oh I didn't say that. USF1 did wonders for his rep. I was speaking more of the guests he usually has on the show.

In fact in the episode I posted he says a few things when he was talking with Tim Goss that made me go huh?

[xpensive]

The CV Peter Windsor had on the USF1 website, where he portrayed himself as a former General Manager of Ferrari,
when all he did was administrating the closure of the Guildford office, spoke volumes of the man. A total fake.

[ringo]

Well the show wasn't revealing really, except for the lubricant temperatures.
They will purposely want the oils to be operating at higher temperatures.
It's not that this engine will be hotter than the v8s by chance.

It's because of the need to reduce the size of the radiators thay they will aim to create lubricants that are able to operate at higher temperatures.
If they could get the coolant to run at 100 degrees C they would. They simply want to have a lower delta T through the radiators so as to have them as small as possible.
I've suggested the use of sodium flouride as a coolant in F1 in my car thread, I'm yet to see regulations on coolant chemistry, so this should be exploited by the teams.

The other stuff, was pretty much what we are discussing, and it's all speculation again. Especially with this 800hp thing.
The mcalren guy said the engine will be less powerfull, then soon after scarbs and windsor said the opposite.
It should be obvious that because of feul chemistry,we cannot get more power than the the current v8s.

Those were about 720-750hp. We will be in the 600s with these new engines.

I don't agree with the engines package being smaller either. The exhaust pipes going to the turbo will take up a lot of space and all the heat exchangers and plumbing. I'm assuming it will be the same size or roughly bigger all parts included.
Expect very thick intercoolers.
But there shouldn't be a concern for the side pod shape. The heat rates will be about the same. the teams need to focus on improving air flow in the side pods however.

[xpensive]

I fail should why oil-temperatures should be higher in an 12 kRpm V6 than in an 18 kRpm V8, unless you want it to in order to increase efficiency of the cooler by boosting the delta T between oil and air, thus reducing the size of the cooler.

This is what Renault did in the 90s with their V10, allowing it to run hotter to get the water temperature up so Williams, read Adrian Newey, could design the cars with smaller radiators and thus more aerodynamically efficient.

[1158]

The CV Peter Windsor had on the USF1 website, where he portrayed himself as a former General Manager of Ferrari,
when all he did was administrating the closure of the Guildford office, spoke volumes of the man. A total fake.

I never saw that! I didn't really check out the USF1 site. I just had a feeling it would never happen and didn't want to get my hopes up. Would have been awesome to have an F1 team a couple hours away. I'm shocked anyone would try to pull something like that. Seems to me F1 is a small enough community that most know what the deal is.

Anyway I thought he was decent as Speed's pitlane guy and think most of the time he is a good interviewer.

As for the raised crank height, I think it will be interesting to see the solutions teams come up with. A raised transmission does increase the CG but a long and narrow casing may allow for more air to the center of the top side of the diffuser.

[WhiteBlue]

Windsor certainly is not dumb, but Scarbs is generally much deeper into technology IMO. That's why I enjoyed his contribution a lot. It was Winsor who mentioned that the intercooler is air-to-air. I did't think of this but it is relevant for the size. The charge cooler or inter cooler will be the biggest heat exchanger by far in the 2014 cars. Bigger than the radiator anyway. Radiator capacity will generally go down significantly because they will run hotter, will use a third less primary energy in the first place and recover more heat. Cooling capacity for the gearbox oil, the MGUs, the battery and the IGPTs will make a big jump upwards at least three times what they had before with the old KERS.

[WhiteBlue]

Very good stuff from Scarbs. He has the same opinion on inter cooler design as me. That we will probably see one unit in one side pot with all the other stuff going in the other side. They mentioned that it will be an air-to-air cooler which necessitates bigger surfaces than an engine radiator.
...

That is definitely not what you predicted a few pages back WB, you mentioned a chargecooler, correct?

A charge cooler and an intercooler is the same, isn't it? Perhaps you can explain the difference if there is any in your view.

[xpensive]

@1158; At the same USF1 site, Ken Andersson claimed to had been Technical Director for Ligier, in France, yeah right.

@WB; I believe that the need for gearbox-cooling will be less, when reduction from 12 kRpm takes a lot less energy than from 18 kRpm in the form of viscous losses, the increased torque is not a power-consumer per se, but speed is by the square.

[xpensive]

...
A charge cooler and an intercooler is the same, isn't it? Perhaps you can explain the difference if there is any in your view.

That's the spirit WB, no retreat, no surrender and never say die.

[WhiteBlue]

@WB; I believe that the need for gearbox-cooling will be less, when reduction from 12 kRpm takes a lot less energy than from 18 kRpm in the form of viscous losses, the increased torque is not a power-consumer per se, but speed is by the square.

They explicitly mentioned an oil cooler for the gearbox in the video. Perhaps you are right that the power remains the same and the cooling requirements for the box are similar, but they apparently plan on having a cooler.