2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[timbo]

Here is a comparison between 2013 and 2014 engines. Of course the frequencies doesn't matter but note how different is the shape of the final gear trace. IMO it shows that 2014 is at least "treated".

http://s11.postimg.org/slfw5e8sj/2013_2014engine.jpg

Hi Timbo, mind sharing what software you are using? I donwloaded SoundView for mac but can't open files with it, had to jump the mic and earphone in loop, less than optimal...

I used an old CoolEdit. If you have problem opening video files in your software, you can use something like Reaper (30 days unlimited trial version available and it is very easy to install/uninstall) to grab the audio portion of the file into something your software understands.

[timbo]

It is strange at 0:45 and 1:05 the rev ups??? Sounds like a second power adder to me. That's why i ask earlier if it was the MGUK kicking in. Kicking in is probably not the correct wording because i know the MGUK will add power gradually so it won't upset the driver. But I don't think that when in high gear the engine can increase its rpm that fast with out some type of power adder or the MGUK???

Well, in fact the revs are jumping so quickly that it should be something of a rocket booster. I believe it is some sort of timing error, maybe audio/video sync problem.

[timbo]

The second paragraph confirms the statement from Rob White - which you have attacked - that the exhaust routing impacts on how we perceive the pitch of the engine.

This doesn't makes sense, exhaust system may affect the timbre but it cannot alter pitch perception (in any practical sense). You just cannot make cello sound like violin.

[Blackout]

The sound is dead because the recording was on the dyno with the exhaust piped out at the roof. The dyno room is insulated so that you do not hear the exhaust as much as you would hear it outside. So be prepared to hear a much different sound later.

Not different from the v8 dyno tests. And the V8 didnt sound that shitty.
I like the new engine formula. but that Merc sounds awful. I hope they altered things...

[rjsa]

The second paragraph confirms the statement from Rob White - which you have attacked - that the exhaust routing impacts on how we perceive the pitch of the engine.

This doesn't makes sense, exhaust system may affect the timbre but it cannot alter pitch perception (in any practical sense). You just cannot make cello sound like violin.

But you can make a viloin sound like you are acratching your nails to a black board...

This discussion happened here: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 12&t=15161

[WhiteBlue]

It is there, in your quote: distortion. There is no technical discussion to be had if one selectivelly reads the words that suit his opinion, discarding the ones that do not. There is just plain spin doctoring what's said and written to suit one's agenda.

There is no spin doctoring involved. I can assure you. Perhaps I'm guilty of leaving out some steps in the logical chain because they appear obvious to me, but I usually take great care to understand my sources. If I understand something wrong and someone shows me the mistake in a discussion I usually tell that person I was wrong. It happened twice today.

The significant thing in the Renault and the Mercedes case is that the "distortion" is due to exactly the same environmental conditions, those of the dyno room. Renault explained some of the distortion in more datail.

The mechanical sounds, the intake sound and the exhaust sound make up the total sound of an engine. In a dyno room you hear only two or perhaps only one of those components without damping. The mechanical sounds like valves or other sound sources. The exhaust you hear with massive damping because it is piped away and you only hear the emissions that go through the wall of the pipe. Same thing can apply to the intake or not if you take the air in from the room. The only other bit of distortion that would have to be considered would be reflections of the noises the engine makes in the room. As far as I'm concerned there appears to be no reflections in the traces that I saw from the people who made graphic representations. At least such reflections would not stop me to identify the frequencies that belong to the main noise source.

And now comes the same conclusion that I made already in the case of the Renault sound file. The distortion is related to damping of the amplitudes and not to the frequency characteristic of the engine noise. You can disagree with me but do not tell me that I spin the facts. If you have some information that would convince me of a mistake you can go ahead and tell me where I'm wrong in your view. If I accept your points I will give you credit for knowing it better.

[WhiteBlue]

This doesn't makes sense, exhaust system may affect the timbre but it cannot alter pitch perception (in any practical sense).

Both Rob White and Andy Cowell have confirmed that this is exactly what happens. If you pipe the two banks of a V engine into one exhaust it sounds different as when you give each bank an individual exhaust pipe. If you read the thread which was quoted you can read the theory behind it. It gets explained by xxchrisxx in great detail.

[WhiteBlue]

Not different from the v8 dyno tests. And the V8 didnt sound that shitty...

Do you have a dyno sound file of a V8 for comparison?
I can remember in 2005 that people were disappointed by dyno sound files from Cosworth although the engine was running at 20.000 rpm. The same people later were full of praise when they heard the engines in the open.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPdm51QwZEw[/youtube]

[timbo]

This doesn't makes sense, exhaust system may affect the timbre but it cannot alter pitch perception (in any practical sense).

Both Rob White and Andy Cowell have confirmed that this is exactly what happens. If you pipe the two banks of a V engine into one exhaust it sounds different as when you give each bank an individual exhaust pipe. If you read the thread which was quoted you can read the theory behind it. It gets explained by xxchrisxx in great detail.

You have absolutely no pitch hearing if you think that V6 sounds currently available are higher-pitched than V10. Any theorizing should coincide with empirics.

[WhiteBlue]

I haven't even mentioned V10.

[timbo]

I haven't even mentioned V10.

My typo. Be it V10s or V8s, they all are higher pitched than what was revealed by Renault or Mercedes.

[rjsa]

This doesn't makes sense, exhaust system may affect the timbre but it cannot alter pitch perception (in any practical sense).

Both Rob White and Andy Cowell have confirmed that this is exactly what happens. If you pipe the two banks of a V engine into one exhaust it sounds different as when you give each bank an individual exhaust pipe. If you read the thread which was quoted you can read the theory behind it. It gets explained by xxchrisxx in great detail.

No it doesn't. He clearly disavowed you when you tried to make this theory stick spinning his words.

Just read again WB's pearl you quoted: it is stating that you hear only half frequency. And he is constantly trying to use your analysys to justify that - in the best ppolitico spin doctor fashion possible: "You see, all is settled, Chris is telling you so, let's not discuss this any longer, lest you raise a valid point"

Well that's a good point, he does indeed say that. And if he did mean mean you only hear half the spectrum, it's 100% wrong. Though in context it's pretty clear hes talking about orders as he describes about where the exhaust pulses go.

[Blackout]

Not different from the v8 dyno tests. And the V8 didnt sound that shitty...

Do you have a dyno sound file of a V8 for comparison?
I can remember in 2005 that people were disappointed by dyno sound files from Cosworth although the engine was running at 20.000 rpm. The same people later were full of praise when they heard the engines in the open.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPdm51QwZEw

There is many on youtube. That cosworth video doesnt show much of the engine's sound unfortunately
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czw1pB6ZDRM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NSRSlHwXhI
...

It's extremely close to the reality; to the sound we hear on the onboard cameras for example, even with all those dyno equipements...

[Blackout]

At the end of this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVAgBwUZfFw

[WhiteBlue]

No it doesn't. He clearly disavowed you when you tried to make this theory stick spinning his words.

Let me just say that I disagree. People can read that thread and make their own judgement.