Ferrari At Le Mans?

[ESPImperium]

Ive been saying it since 2011 and i have been pissed upon from a high.

I think it will happen now.

Ferrari will do a LMP1 program, probably only 2 cars.

As xpensive said, it could be a outsource to Dallara with the rest being in house Ferrari. Look at Toyota, they have Oreca running their cars in LMP1.

Audi are spending €400m on their LMP program a year, Porche are going to spend €1.4b over the 5 years of their program, thats an average of €280m a year, Toyota are spending €220m a year, Rebellion are spending €100m a year. So it is arguable that Ferrari could spend €250m a year on a two car team and do something.

However, their one key facility will need massive overhauling, their tunnel, as Audi spent €125m in 2008 on theirs that has a 15 degree tilting road for elevation changes, a twisting road to simulate the car turning and a rolling road, not to mention that they have their tunnel that can drop to -30C and heat to +45C as well. Its F1 spec taken to the next level. F1 tunnels at present take 60% models that have a rolling road and a ambient air temp. Porsche are using the Audi tunnel until theirs of the same spec is built. Toyota are rumored to be building a new R&D lab in Cologne to same spec that will have their CFD, Sim and Tunnel all under the same roof. Ferrari will have to spend big on this to be able to go far in LMP racing, but this tunnel can be used for F1 as well as it seems their problems are all tunnel based.

[SectorOne]

Ferrari can of course do it the same way they did the 333 SP, outsourcing the chassis build and development to Dallara,
to focus on the driveline, which then could be very similar to their F1 unit, including the KERS and HERS?

I was under the impression Michelotto built the 333 SP?

[wesley123]

it was ordered and partially financed by him. The cars were designed by Ferrari(and Dallara) and were built by Dallara.

[xpensive]

Think about it, Montezuma turns 66 in August, what's missing on his resume anyway, never underestimate personal incentives?

[MOWOG]

I read somewhere that Ferrari has access to the Sauber tunnel, which is reported to be on a par with the best in the business and that Sauber gets its Ferrari engines free as a result. Could the Sauber facility help Ferrari in a LMP program?

Although, if the results on the track are any indication, having use of the Sauber tunnel hasn't helped the Maranello boys all that much.....

[marcush.]

with the current trend in formula 1 Ferrari should diversify -it may even be possible to sell a lmp1 car to potent teams ..if it worked for Porsche it should be possible to sell a Ferrari programme.
question is -can Ferrari afford a second big development programme in paralell? talk is the F1 powertrain may be eligible but will it be reliable and competitve enough?
Isn´t saubers Tunnel not contracted to Audi for LMP?

[ESPImperium]

I read somewhere that Ferrari has access to the Sauber tunnel, which is reported to be on a par with the best in the business and that Sauber gets its Ferrari engines free as a result. Could the Sauber facility help Ferrari in a LMP program? :?:

Although, if the results on the track are any indication, having use of the Sauber tunnel hasn't helped the Maranello boys all that much..... :roll:

Ferrari have been using the TMG tunnel, however it wouldn't surprise me that TMG have booted Ferrari off their premises if Ferrari are looking at a LMP attack. And with Ferrari being owed €19m with them wanting €9m before August 31st or they wont get any more new engines this season or a engine supplier for 2014 for a deal to be worked out where Ferrari use the Sauber tunnel that BMW left in 2009/2010. When TMG are charging €80,000 an hour, writing €9m off to use the Sauber tunnel would make sense, and would mean that Sauber could let Ferrari use the tunnel for their LMP project as well whilst both teams are not using their days of tunnel use for F1.

I think that makes sense, and whilst Ferrari close their tunnel down for a full diagnostic check, they can use the Sauber tunnel as correlation checks for their CFD, and im sure Ferrari will use Sauber in the other direction for them to check the Ferrari tunnel. It makes sense as Williams let Caterham use their tunnel and Marussia use the McLaren tunnel and Toro Rosso use the Red Bull one, so both Sauber and Ferrari coming to a deal makes sense to me, as Mercedes could be allowing Force India to use their tunnel as well under the new RRA where tunnel sharing is allowed, only Lotus will have a half idle tunnel.

That makes sense as The Sauber guys could take the team out of a hole there.

[WhiteBlue]

..I think that makes sense, and whilst Ferrari close their tunnel down for a full diagnostic check, they can use the Sauber tunnel as correlation checks for their CFD, and im sure Ferrari will use Sauber in the other direction for them to check the Ferrari tunnel....

Could it be that the Ferrari tunnel was simply build too small? I believe it was initially build to 50% scale and Ferrari upgraded it to 60%. From that point on they had correlation problems. What if they simply had boundary problems with a tunnel that was not big enough?

I can see that tunnel work could be anther serious obstacle to LMP1 unless they arrange something.

[marcush.]

as i understand ,the Ferrari tunnel is already broken up and will be completely refurbished or a new tunnel will be build on the same site ...no work done there in the near future.

Saubers tunnel was up and running on full song when BMW joined Sauber .It was stat of the art ,Benchmark back then as it may be still these days ,without a doubt it has been updated constantly in recent years and it was designed for 60% models and bigger (?) from day one as it was always intended to provide secrecy for potential customers .
As Saubers tunnel was used to evaluate all recent audi designs a Ferrari deal does make a lot of sense ,even if Sauber tunnel personnel might not have had full access to all data ,they surely know a LOT of sensitive detail about the development of audis LMP programme -effectively this is a benchmark study already at your disposal .You need no more than class best in detail ,don´t you?

[MadMatt]

Ive been saying it since 2011 and i have been pissed upon from a high.

I think it will happen now.

Ferrari will do a LMP1 program, probably only 2 cars.

As xpensive said, it could be a outsource to Dallara with the rest being in house Ferrari. Look at Toyota, they have Oreca running their cars in LMP1.

Audi are spending €400m on their LMP program a year, Porche are going to spend €1.4b over the 5 years of their program, thats an average of €280m a year, Toyota are spending €220m a year, Rebellion are spending €100m a year. So it is arguable that Ferrari could spend €250m a year on a two car team and do something.

However, their one key facility will need massive overhauling, their tunnel, as Audi spent €125m in 2008 on theirs that has a 15 degree tilting road for elevation changes, a twisting road to simulate the car turning and a rolling road, not to mention that they have their tunnel that can drop to -30C and heat to +45C as well. Its F1 spec taken to the next level. F1 tunnels at present take 60% models that have a rolling road and a ambient air temp. Porsche are using the Audi tunnel until theirs of the same spec is built. Toyota are rumored to be building a new R&D lab in Cologne to same spec that will have their CFD, Sim and Tunnel all under the same roof. Ferrari will have to spend big on this to be able to go far in LMP racing, but this tunnel can be used for F1 as well as it seems their problems are all tunnel based.

Some interesting info there, have you got sources for Audi's wind tunnel?

[xpensive]

Dallara doesn't seem to be far behind on either wind tunnel or simulations, less that an hour's drive from Maranello, perhaps the perfect chassis-partner for Ferrari in LMP1, while they can focus on what they are good at, drivelines?

http://www.dallara.it/design.php

[marcush.]

the Audi tunnel you are referring to is their rolling road climate tunnel a similar(and even more impressive) device is available in Sindelfingen .It´s of course not a facility for Motorsports R&D it´s for their series car development and validation ,especially interior ,climate ,Rain,Wiper ,defrost ,demist etc.
If it has a value or even time slots available for Aeroresearch of a motorsports programme is doubtful.
Audi using the tunnel is more a function of the trouble they had with Bentley and their first lmp coupe in leMans with drowned alternators and liftin of wipers at higher speeds in one of the wettest 24h races ever in LeMans.
Audi has released some windtunnel pictures full size and scale testing and clearly the windtunnel model sits in Hinwil ...when the Full size car is shown in a multibelt tunnel (maybe Stuttgart?)
The Porsche tunnel is up and running already ,no?

[ESPImperium]

...

Some interesting info there, have you got sources for Audi's wind tunnel?

Some article on the old F1 Live site that used to carry the best HQ pics on that was taken over by ESPN.

The Audi tunnel is only used for full scale testing now i am led to believe as Audi use it for their commercial available cars and their DTM project as well.

[marcush.]

to put it straight:

r18 in hinwil-windtunnel,not Ingolstadt .

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsnov10.html
the sumup of Audis PR pics in Ingolstadt climate windtunnel

I think Mulsanne Mike has it covered all in his news. =D> he and his site really is a reliable source -uuh no mention of Ferrari there these days???

[MadMatt]

Found a bit more here as well: http://90right.wordpress.com/2011/05/20 ... t-le-mans/

But I think I drove this topic out of the subject