KERS and traction control

[shelly]

After the pictures of Mark Webber in Canada, showing intermittent tyre marks after the hairpin, there has been some discussion on the RB) thread about redbull possibly using KERS to control traction.

I have seen this hypotesis being cited on italian forums (omnicorse.it and blogf1.it), where some users claimed that he cause for the series of Massa's accidents was that he was testing in the race a kers based tc, but no source or evidence was cited.

Then a couple of days ago on thejudge13.com, here:

http://thejudge13.com/2013/07/28/ferrar ... heir-grip/

the idea of massa testing in race a kers based tc was again put forward, via an unnamed source.

I am getting curious about that

[WhiteBlue]

Very unlikely. How are you supposed to get the necessary software or hardware through a scrutineering session past the FiA inspectors?

[shelly]

I agree with you, it seems very unlikely - I was thinking that both at the beginning with the talk about rbr, and when it was put forward by those forumers. But seeing it on thejudge 13 makes me think a bit more, because it seems to be more reliable.

Speaking of check on electronics, we know that there is SECU for the engine; but what freedom is granted to kers tuning? is it an independent control loop or is it managed by the secu itself? I think there is margin to discuss about the feasibility of such a system while seeing if the gosssip becomes more solid

[Tim.Wright]

This illegal traction control thing won't go away...

Firstly, Massa'a problems were under braking. Traction control work in acceleration. Case closed.

Second, I think it could be very likely that all the teams, not just Ferrari, are working on systems which regulate the engine torque a little bit under braking etc for reasons of stability. Such a system could easily be implemented within the rules, and would likely be linked to their differential control strategies. The fact that its not monitoring the wheel slips and using this as a control input (since its not possible with the SECU) means that it is not traction control and not illegal.

I'd also bet that the net effects are not so different from the way that manufacturers have been using the diff and engine braking to stabilise race and road cars for the last 50 years or so. Even without complicated electronics.

I also believe that such a system would not be so simple that it would work first time out. Massa's spins could indeed be due to such a system but my opinion is that it is not illegal. This is just something people like to say when they see something they don't understand.

[WhiteBlue]

All electronic equipment on the cars is under the control of MES and FiA rules. This goes down even to the last sensor and the wiring loom. They have to be homologated and under the control of the FiA. KERS is no exception. The inverters and their control electronics are part of the system. Anything that you want to do must be purely mechanical by nature or hydraulics without electric control. I doubt that you can do it. It cannot even be activated from the steering wheel. You would have to design levers or toggles somewhere in the cockpit to tweak or adjust things.

And how would a scrutineer not ask questions about such a system when he inspects the car? Traction control is illegal in F1. So even a pure mechanical system once discovered would be deemed illegal and the team would face very stiff penalties including ban from the championship for one or more seasons. how does that prospect look to any team? I think they will be very carefully to sort any such systems out with careful consultation of the FiA technical delegate.

[shelly]

I agrre with the doubts about the sytem being feasible and not policeable. Maybe it is just a setting in the harvesting system, that gives a very high resistance to very fast variation of rpm (such as in wheelspin).

I agrre that there are many wrong rumors, but I wanted to keep an eye on this one