The Ultimate Racing Car

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
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hollus
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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allstaruk08 wrote:... the downforce is creating a force greater than the mass of the car ...
...greater than the weight of the car...
Mass and force are two completely different concepts. Weight is a force. Mass does not create force, gravity does in everyday's experience creating the apparent relation between mass and force (weight).
Rivals, not enemies.

allstaruk08
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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Yeah sorry I meant weight :)

mzivtins
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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Wow, lots of mass-debating :lol:

I appreciate that added force to un-sprung parts would bring with it a set of challenges, but i feel it would be so much simplyer than currently having to adjust suspension to deal with a multitude of load due to downFORCE on the sprung mass.

Bump reaction is a good point, i wonder if this would increase deflection of bumps?

Anyway, if we use F1 tyres, they provide a lot of travel that is seen as part of the suspension travel, so that may help, but then sticking the pirelli's on the ultimate race car would be like adding feces to a magnificent meal.

Exevium
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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Let me first start off by saying I'm a dreamer. Not a do-er, or a thinker, (sumtimes the latter) but mostly a dreamer. Therefore I do not believe in the rules of physics, (of course I believe in them, but) they're more like guidelines for me. Also, I'm new to this forum (got to this thread via Google), but I desperately needed to get in on this.

Most of the things listed are merely a compilation as listed above, but with my personal filter added to them. Also, a shout out to MadMatt, cause when things started to get complicated in my head, I saw your post, and that really got things into perspective for me. So I sort of started with editing his post, making it my own.

Here we go:

Body:
- Very light carbon fiber body
- Huayra-like wings
- Active front and rear wing
- Closed wheels and canopy
- Six wheels for lower front wheel section
- Ground effect with huge underbody tunnels (Venturi tunnels)
- Canard pushing dirty air over rear wing
- Or remove front and rear wing completely
- Automatically controlled ejector seat (nice idea from MadMatt)

Chassis:
- Carbon monocoque
- Car in components
- Active suspension
- Active diffuser

Engine:
- Flat-12 supercharged diesel (for low speed power)
- 5 valves per cylinder
- Turbines on either side of Flat-12 (for high speed power)
- As external combustion chamber
- No afterburner because of safety risk
- Thrust vectoring, left to go left and right for right, forwards to brake
- Sucks air from underneath the car
- Thermal Energy Recovery uses primarily turbines
- Kinetic Energy Recovery uses primarily Flat-12
- TERS and KERS powered by Williams flywheels (magnetic flywheel, lighter than a normal batterypack)
- Flywheels located one above each rear wheel and one in the front
- Flywheel used as gyroscope for added stabilty
- Max 130 kilo diesel on board

Transmission:
- CVT with advanced mapping
- One CVT for Flat-12, one CVT for both turbines

Driver:
- Maybe remove driver all together, making it RC/AI controlled
- With the lack of wings, this could give an extremly low car

I played around with the idea of a completly flexible body (so hunderds of tiny wings would deploy for braking and cornering), or even retractable wheels (for literaly flying over the straights, powered by the turbines), but I guess my inspiration (and the clearness in my head) runs out here.

langwadt
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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maybe I'm old fashion but racing ultimate and diesel simple doesn't belong in the same sentence

Saribro
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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Not so much old fashioned as just narrow minded.

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Tim.Wright
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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Why then is any open powertrain series using a petrol engine?

Diesels are only superior in performance when the rules are biased to make them so (like in endurance racing a few years ago)
Not the engineer at Force India

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SectorOne
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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I´ll take Newey´s creation any day of the week. Assuming it would exist as a fully functional car.

Image

It´s a fan car, nearly 1500hp and a theoretical top speed of 500km/h. Maximum corner speed of over 8G.
Weighs a theoretical 545kg. Since brakes are the most astonishing thing on any car, imagine that G-force.
Would be like hitting a wall.

the power to weight ratio is through the roof. And you essentially have jet fighter forces in the car.
A G-suit would probably be needed at tracks with elevation changes like SPA.

If it existed today it would make current F1 cars look like a rental kart. This car follows no regulations at all.

Image
Image
Image
Image
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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Tim.Wright
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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SectorOne wrote:I´ll take Newey´s creation any day of the week. Assuming it would exist as a fully functional car.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _Speed.jpg

It´s a fan car, nearly 1500hp and a theoretical top speed of 500km/h. Maximum corner speed of over 8G.
Weighs a theoretical 545kg. Since brakes are the most astonishing thing on any car, imagine that G-force.
Would be like hitting a wall.

the power to weight ratio is through the roof. And you essentially have jet fighter forces in the car.
A G-suit would probably be needed at tracks with elevation changes like SPA.

If it existed today it would make current F1 cars look like a rental kart. This car follows no regulations at all.

http://xn-games.net/okra/wp-content/upl ... bull-1.jpg
http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads ... 2010-5.jpg
http://xn-games.net/okra/wp-content/upl ... bull-3.jpg
http://xn-games.net/okra/wp-content/upl ... 24x576.jpg
Yet it could be so much quicker if it was actually "designed" instead of "styled"
Not the engineer at Force India

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SectorOne
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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Tim.Wright wrote:Yet it could be so much quicker if it was actually "designed" instead of "styled"
It is made for the purpose of performance not look good.

This is why there was an update later called X2011 which further theoretically reduced drag and increased top speed.
This car is Adrian Newey with free reigns.

(X2010)

Engine: gas turbine, 1483bhp @ 15,000RPM, 527lb ft @ 12,000RPM
Transmission: continuously variable, rear-wheel drive
Top Speed: 249mph
Weight: 545kg
Length/Width/Height: 4750/2180/980mm
Suzuka Lap Time: 1:11.540 (compare with Vettel’s 2009 F1 lap time of 1:30.833) (he also drove the X2010 laptime)
Special Features: enclosed wheels, “fan element” to increase low and medium-speed downforce (much like a vacuum cleaner)

This was the question Kazunori asked Newey.

“If you built the fastest racing car on land, one that throws aside all rules and regulations, what would that car look like, how would it perform, and how would it feel to drive?”

And what you see above is the result of this.

Straight from the horses mouth,

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zfSnCofyiM#at=40[/youtube]

And just to get a small idea of the obscene nature of it, the ghost car in the video is Vettel´s own lap he did.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx83-b1Xlno[/youtube]
Last edited by SectorOne on 09 Aug 2013, 15:12, edited 1 time in total.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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Tim.Wright
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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SectorOne wrote:
Tim.Wright wrote:Yet it could be so much quicker if it was actually "designed" instead of "styled"
It is made for the purpose of performance not look good.
If you want to believe than then fine. I find it hard to believe that its anything other than a concept sketch that someone has turned into a rolling body shell. A lot of the bodywork, particularly at the back looked styled not engineered.

Its a promo tool for a game. Nothing more.
Not the engineer at Force India

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SectorOne
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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Yea i´ll believe that like the majority does, you can believe that it´s for pure show just by looking at the rear end which you feel "look" designed and not engineered.

Which one sounds more plausible in reality? spending several thousand developing something that goes against what Newey is or actually trying to create the fastest machine he could come up with.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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Tim.Wright
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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SectorOne wrote:Which one sounds more plausible in reality? spending several thousand developing something that goes against what Newey is or actually trying to create the fastest machine he could come up with.
You do know this was a publicity stunt from a games company? There was no interest from Sony or Polyphony or whoever funded it to make the fastest car ever. They wanted a nice looking car they could attach Newey's name to in order to sell more copies of Gran Turismo 6.
Not the engineer at Force India

langwadt
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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Saribro wrote:Not so much old fashioned as just narrow minded.
what does a diesel offer except slightly better fuel consumption? for everything else petrol is better

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SectorOne
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Re: The Ultimate Racing Car

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Tim.Wright wrote:You do know this was a publicity stunt from a games company? There was no interest from Sony or Polyphony or whoever funded it to make the fastest car ever. They wanted a nice looking car they could attach Newey's name to in order to sell more copies of Gran Turismo 6.
You do know that what you just said is backed up by thin air right?

You do know that Polyphony Digitial that has sold over 70 million copies of the Gran Turismo Franchise really doesn´t need to create publicity stunts.
Sony is behind Polyphony, Gran Turismo is usually bundled with a PS3. They don´t need to create fake PR stunts.

Then we can look at Kazunori and Newey, both through and through racers, both participate in racing whenever they can, Kazunori for example usually does the 24H of Nurburgring.

These are petrol heads. To suggest that they would create a fake car just for PR stunt goes against everything they stand for.

I´d love to see Newey´s face saying you cannot design for performance, it must be looks only.
Then proceed to make fake specs just for fun.


...OR....just maybe Kazunori realizes what a genius Newey is and simply asked, if you had free reigns, what would you build?

I´ll go with the latter. A proper challenge for Newey away from F1.


EDIT:

Because it is a virtual car that won´t be built in real life, why not go all out in performance?
People are hardly buying GT5 because of the looks of the X2010. No it´s the performance. It´s the fact that it´s been designed by Newey with no regards to any regulations. That´s the real selling point here.

Which overall is miniscule compared to the already fantastic growth of GT5.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"