2014 Engine yin yang

[xpensive]

So, if Sauber and Marussia go bust, Ferrari is on their own, how did they end up like that?

[Richard]

Smart bit of business by those two teams, Ferrari will face a demand for cheap (near zero?) cost engines otherwise their supply of engine data will stop.

We also need to factor in Honda. Surely they'll not be happy or get enough data with just one team?

[xpensive]

True, funny how the two poorest teams ended up with Ferrari, perhaps compensated for the effort by a certain benefactor?

[marcush.]

Is the powertrain market a buyer or sellers market these days ?
It does not look like it was easy to find someone willing to pay the full asking price,maybe apart from Team Mclaren as they get full access to a benchmark powertrain to gauge their 2015 powertrain against fair enough to pay for that ..honda will be more than happy to spend a few bucks on that research project.
The rest of the field seems to be at ease to say -look empty pockets -give me a powertrain for free or I will happily go elsewhere...sauber surely played that card to convincing lately but I guess ferrari was all too keen to not lose them ?

[xpensive]

Is the powertrain market a buyer or sellers market these days ?
...

Right, I don't believe teams paying a premium for MHPE-engines for a minute, when the Renault is good enough for Red Bull?

[WhiteBlue]

Is the powertrain market a buyer or sellers market these days ?
...

Right, I don't believe teams paying a premium for MHPE-engines for a minute, when the Renault is good enough for Red Bull?

Red Bull's strategy lately seems to have been containment. They have tried very hard for an extremely narrow spec engine which eventually will be frozen on top of being completely over regulated. All this being done in order to make the chassis come back as soon as possible as the decisive factor. So if they have a disadvantage in 2014 they hope to recover it very quickly by 2015 when the game will be played again by their rules. And if that does not work they will buy themselves another engine. The pockets are deep enough to make the contract penalties look like Monopoly money to them.

[WhiteBlue]

100 sounds really important to speak with George Carlin. So it is likely what he calls marketing bullshit. Ferrari have estimated the spread between the ICE power at 50 hp next year. If that is the spread over the year of an homologated engine it can be the spread between the first and the second in the power race. Depending on how clever you are you can get perhaps another 20 horses from heat and kinetic recovery. So my personal estimate is a maximum of 70 horses between the manufacturers with the 20 horses probably a software issue mainly, which can be overcome during the season.

[FrukostScones]

I know the 100 HP advantage is just a rumor but AMuS is sometimes very good when it comes to inside info.
Again: They reported in Oktober(or Sept) 2008 that the 2009 Honda car would have massive downforce in contrast to the reduction aim by the new 2009 regs (I can't remember if they said it was because a secret development).

[xpensive]

There you go, MHPE might have added a few g/s, but not as a "flow" but as a "stream", that way circumventing the rules?

[lio007]

There you go, MHPE might have added a few g/s, but not as a "flow" but as a "stream", that way circumventing the rules?

But I thought there will be a FIA-fuel-flow-meter where ALL fuel for the engine has to go through...so to add a few g/s is not possible?

[xpensive]

For the "fuel-flow" yes, but not for the innovatively added "fuel-stream", just like a "slot" is not a "hole".

[SectorOne]

It seems to me most of the media is banking on Mercedes coming out swinging next year.
Everyone just assumes they will be competitive. I find it quite interesting despite the fact that nobody really knows anything.

[GitanesBlondes]

I know the 100 HP advantage is just a rumor but AMuS is sometimes very good when it comes to inside info.
Again: They reported in Oktober(or Sept) 2008 that the 2009 Honda car would have massive downforce in contrast to the reduction aim by the new 2009 regs (I can't remember if they said it was because a secret development).

This sounds like the time Ferrari claimed their engines had way more horsepower than the engine that Coventry Climax produced in the 50s. They ultimately shelved the engine out of misguided fear, as had they used the engine, it was far better than anything else on the grid at the time.

Maybe a way to try and make McLaren rethink their stance on dumping Mercedes power?

[marcush.]

with electric drives you can do alot of weird things when it comes to torque and short term power ...maybe they are playing around with these variables.
You will pay a transmission dimensioning penalty due to the extra torque ...not only in terms of weight but also packaging(cooling ,latency cooling ?) ..so it may well backfire on them quickly to have more (peak)power than the others...but ending up with a heavy truck?
wasn´t it only last year when rumours were spread Mercedes rear tyre woes were in fact an excess power/torque problem stemming from just too good works engines ?? a rumour spread by AMuS to be precise...
You need to take into account the power and torque you can transmit so with Tyres not changing that much no ways you can make actually use of the extra torque.

[GitanesBlondes]

with electric drives you can do alot of weird things when it comes to torque and short term power ...maybe they are playing around with these variables.
You will pay a transmission dimensioning penallty ...not only in terms of weight but also packaging ..so it may well backfire on them quicjkly to have more power than the others...
wasn´t it only last year when rumours were spread Mercedes rear tyre woes were in fact an excess power/torque problem stemming from just too good works engines ?? a rumour spread by AMuS to be precise...

I like to think that Mercedes was trying to see how much power they could get out of the engine reliably before having to scale it back to meet the fuel flow rate. Maybe someone decided to call AMuS and tell them how much power the engine could produce without actually mentioning that it isn't the final version of the engine for 2014?