2014 Engine yin yang

[WhiteBlue]

Do customer teams run supplier ECU code, or is the ECU code an individual team component? I'm guessing you get a base map as a customer with your purchase of a power unit, but nothing fancy.

No team gets access to the programming level of the SECU. All they can do is parameters, profiles and maps. I doubt they can even do a couple of I/Os and connect them with simple logic programming without MES approval. It is a fairly watertight system.

[wuzak]

These kind of rules, such as mass-flow metering, are simply way too tempting to circumvent, quarter of a second of full
fuel-flow after lift-off, 9cc, will be enough to give a 75 Hp boost for two seconds when you are back on the throttle again.

Think about it.

I doubt an accumulator would be allowed to be fitted after the fuel flow meter.

And if the engine backs off, the injectors will require less fuel. If the pump continues to push fuel through at the same rate the system pressure will be raised above maximum and the pressure relief will be activated, with the excess fuel being pumped back into the tank. This will happen long before the pressure becomes sufficient to compress the fuel in the fuel lines for an extra 9cc of fuel to be stored in them.

Of course you may design flexible fuel lines, which grow under pressure. But then you run the risk of bursting fuel lines.

[timbo]

I doubt an accumulator would be allowed to be fitted after the fuel flow meter.

Yes it is explicitly banned.

And if the engine backs off, the injectors will require less fuel. If the pump continues to push fuel through at the same rate the system pressure will be raised above maximum and the pressure relief will be activated, with the excess fuel being pumped back into the tank.

I wonder whether it is needed to run injectors at max pressure. Could they run them at, say, 400bars instead of 500bars?

This will happen long before the pressure becomes sufficient to compress the fuel in the fuel lines for an extra 9cc of fuel to be stored in them.

Well, let's see...
Here some calculations example can be found http://www.disa.it/pdf/04HistoryOfDieselFuelInj.pdf
Here some data http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/bulk- ... d_585.html
If I assume 12000bar modulus for fuel, a pressure difference between 400 and 500 bars I see a reduction of specific volume from 1,25ml/g to 1,24ml/g. Which gives around 0,3g per 50ml fuel line.
Not much, but worth the hassle? If the line is 1L though, it gives 6,4g.

Of course you may design flexible fuel lines, which grow under pressure. But then you run the risk of bursting fuel lines.

Yes, but if that produces a clear benefit, maybe they would take the risk.

[CBeck113]

These kind of rules, such as mass-flow metering, are simply way too tempting to circumvent, quarter of a second of full
fuel-flow after lift-off, 9cc, will be enough to give a 75 Hp boost for two seconds when you are back on the throttle again.

Think about it.

I doubt an accumulator would be allowed to be fitted after the fuel flow meter.

And if the engine backs off, the injectors will require less fuel. If the pump continues to push fuel through at the same rate the system pressure will be raised above maximum and the pressure relief will be activated, with the excess fuel being pumped back into the tank. This will happen long before the pressure becomes sufficient to compress the fuel in the fuel lines for an extra 9cc of fuel to be stored in them.

Of course you may design flexible fuel lines, which grow under pressure. But then you run the risk of bursting fuel lines.

How about a simple check valve on the return line after the actual tank line valve, which only opens over 400bar (just grabbed that number out of the air), turning the entire fuel delivery system into an accumulator? I don't remember reading about limitations on the return lines...

[GrandAxe]

Perhaps not an accumulator, but something like the FRIC system that can actively monitor and maintain pressures after the gauge as well as store fuel?

[GitanesBlondes]

Do customer teams run supplier ECU code, or is the ECU code an individual team component? I'm guessing you get a base map as a customer with your purchase of a power unit, but nothing fancy.

No team gets access to the programming level of the SECU. All they can do is parameters, profiles and maps. I doubt they can even do a couple of I/Os and connect them with simple logic programming without MES approval. It is a fairly watertight system.

Says who?

Honestly, one of the best investments any F1 team could make is to hire a hacker or two to allow them access into the ECU and to figure out a way to wipe out all trace of the ECU being accessed.

[xpensive]

...
Of course you may design flexible fuel lines, which grow under pressure. But then you run the risk of bursting fuel lines.

Flexible? Well, everything has a modulus, you simply have to calculate a low-modulus fuel line properly and there you go, surely there are people way smarter than you and I busy thinking about how to cheat the system anyway?

[Tim.Wright]

Do customer teams run supplier ECU code, or is the ECU code an individual team component? I'm guessing you get a base map as a customer with your purchase of a power unit, but nothing fancy.

No team gets access to the programming level of the SECU. All they can do is parameters, profiles and maps. I doubt they can even do a couple of I/Os and connect them with simple logic programming without MES approval. It is a fairly watertight system.

Says who?

Honestly, one of the best investments any F1 team could make is to hire a hacker or two to allow them access into the ECU and to figure out a way to wipe out all trace of the ECU being accessed.

You've been watching too much matrix. Trying that would high risk and catastrophic consequences. Not to mention expensive, whether it works or not...

[GitanesBlondes]

You've been watching too much matrix. Trying that would high risk and catastrophic consequences. Not to mention expensive, whether it works or not...

Don't be so sure about that.

[Tim.Wright]

When I say high risk and catastrophic consequences, I'm not talking on a technical level. I'm talking on a political level.

Eventually someone will find out and the team be booted from the championship.

[GitanesBlondes]

When I say high risk and catastrophic consequences, I'm not talking on a technical level. I'm talking on a political level.

Eventually someone will find out and the team be booted from the championship.

As history has proven more often than not, that doesn't really happen.

[wuzak]

Perhaps not an accumulator, but something like the FRIC system that can actively monitor and maintain pressures after the gauge as well as store fuel?

5.10.6 Any device, system or procedure the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate after the measurement point is prohibited.

Any attempt to beat the fuel flow rate restriction will be met heavily.

Remember the FIA took BAR to the tribunal over not having enough fuel to sample, and got BAR banned for 2 races. (The stewards wrongly accepted data as proof that they hadn't run underweight during the race.)

I hate to think what the FIA would do to someone deliberately sidestepping this rule.

[wuzak]

Do customer teams run supplier ECU code, or is the ECU code an individual team component? I'm guessing you get a base map as a customer with your purchase of a power unit, but nothing fancy.

No team gets access to the programming level of the SECU. All they can do is parameters, profiles and maps. I doubt they can even do a couple of I/Os and connect them with simple logic programming without MES approval. It is a fairly watertight system.

Says who?

Honestly, one of the best investments any F1 team could make is to hire a hacker or two to allow them access into the ECU and to figure out a way to wipe out all trace of the ECU being accessed.

The engine manufacturers can program the ECU. So fuel maps, etc, can be set to suit the engine's characteristics.

The hardware has limited inputs and outputs, so hacking will not provide any benefit.

The current ECU has more than last year's, but that is because it is for next year's more complicated power units (and includes ERS).

[WhiteBlue]

No team gets access to the programming level of the SECU. All they can do is parameters, profiles and maps. I doubt they can even do a couple of I/Os and connect them with simple logic programming without MES approval. It is a fairly watertight system.

Says who?

Honestly, one of the best investments any F1 team could make is to hire a hacker or two to allow them access into the ECU and to figure out a way to wipe out all trace of the ECU being accessed.

The engine manufacturers can program the ECU. So fuel maps, etc, can be set to suit the engine's characteristics.

The hardware has limited inputs and outputs, so hacking will not provide any benefit.

The current ECU has more than last year's, but that is because it is for next year's more complicated power units (and includes ERS).

My understanding is that any programming the manufacturers need they have to put through an application interface that is provided by MES. They can only require functionalities. The programs once approved will be done by MES. It has been that way since the SECU was introduced. At least that is what I know about the thing. BMW had lengthy comments when the SECU got introduced.

[timbo]

With the electronic control of the rear brakes allowed, would it be also controlled thru SECU?


Checked the regs and it is indeed so. I wonder if something like brake-operated TC can be emloyed. This should involve biasing brakes only towards the rear though. What if driver has another bias position for rear-brakes only and engages that at the corner exit, than just brushes the pedal lightly so electronically controlled rear-brakes only prevent wheel spin?