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So in theory this would turn out an advantage next year with torque-heavy turbo engines and their natural tendency to oversteer on power mid corner?raymondu999 wrote:Yep, confirms what we've known so far IMO. Mark is more of a classical-line guy, whereas Seb likes to rotate the car on entry to gain a quicker exit
I wouldn't say that for sure. Here's why:Juzh wrote:So in theory this would turn out an advantage next year with torque-heavy turbo engines and their natural tendency to oversteer on power mid corner?
Source: http://plus.autosport.com/premium/featu ... -revealed/ (subs required)As ever, it all depends upon circumstance and conditions. Back in the turbo days, the oversteering Keke Rosberg could not hold a candle at McLaren to the understeering Alain Prost – and for John Barnard, the team's technical director of the time, the reason was very simple: "Alain would set the car up in a way that to any other driver would feel like it had massive understeer, but he had a way of getting the car into the corner early [with his overlapping of braking and cornering], which for a turbo was fantastic, because it meant he could get early on the power and we could give him some traction. Keke, by contrast, was last of the late brakers and really liked to turn the car very quickly. To do that you need a set-up that's a bit light on rear grip – and that just wasn't the way with these cars because it meant you didn't have the traction to use all that huge power."
A lot of the performance limit of a car is set by stability in the high-speed zones; if you can't hang onto it, you will have to introduce understeer in that zone. But if you have a driver better able to deal with oversteer in those zones that induce it, then you will have a less-understeery car elsewhere and therefore more total grip over the lap. The great drivers over the years – Senna, Schumacher, Mansell – have all had that ability. Like for like compared to other drivers, they want more front end.
They changed Rotor and Pad material -from Brembo to Carbon Industries no word about Akebono in that Interview?SectorOne wrote:Now that you mentioned Peter i realized where the quote came from.raymondu999 wrote:I don't think that was Hamilton. Wasn't it Peter Windsor who was talking about those? In his "Racer's Edge" column. The guy has a brake fetish.
Regarding the change from Brembo to Akebono,
Peter asked if you needed to adapt (in terms of changing brakes) but Hamilton said,
"you don´t need to adapt, they are just better, they´re just outright better"
And that when Hamilton came to the team, Rosberg tried them and realized they were simply better and subsequently changed brakes he too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBMCubccUM
So it does seem like the Akebono´s are simply better. The reason for some drivers not using them could be down to pure driving style.
There´s a quote somewhere from Hamilton´s F3 boss explaining how he mastered the late braking aspect.
And Hamilton said that Rosberg has been the only guy to ever really match him in late braking, specifically saying that Alonso never braked later then him which i found quite interesting.
That bit though will be tough to find, i can´t remember where that was written i just remember what had been said.
(like this time so maybe you can say some more names and it will pop up)
I got downvoted the last time i said this but he really is one of the latest, late-brakes in F1.
It´s one of his signatures with the inside locking wheel if you have followed his career.
Only mclaren gets akebono brakes, do they not? That's why hamilton is still complaining they don't feel right, because merc don't get access to them.marcush. wrote: They changed Rotor and Pad material -from Brembo to Carbon Industries no word about Akebono in that Interview?
Well, they seem to work quite good for them.raymondu999 wrote:Brembo, AFAIKJuzh wrote:What brakes do RB use?
They use it since 2007 i believe.Kiril Varbanov wrote:Mclaren use Akebono for quite some time
The only problem i have with this is early 2012.raymondu999 wrote:Yep, confirms what we've known so far IMO. Mark is more of a classical-line guy, whereas Seb likes to rotate the car on entry to gain a quicker exit
Mercedes use Akebono from this season onwards. This is why Rosberg tried them and changed brand when Hamilton arrived.Kiril Varbanov wrote:Mclaren use Akebono for quite some time, the rest uses Brembo, apart from Marussia, who have callipers from AP Racing and pads by Hitco Carbon. AP Racing are also used by Lotus, it's a bit of a mix on the grid, really ...
Indeed, that's why I resorted to the mix grid statementSectorOne wrote:Mercedes use Akebono from this season onwards. This is why Rosberg tried them and changed brand when Hamilton arrived.Kiril Varbanov wrote:Mclaren use Akebono for quite some time, the rest uses Brembo, apart from Marussia, who have callipers from AP Racing and pads by Hitco Carbon. AP Racing are also used by Lotus, it's a bit of a mix on the grid, really ...
+1. There's no strict list maintained, here's an old one - http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/f1_suppliers.htmlESPImperium wrote:I thought Williams used AP Racing callipers with Brembo discs and pads to driver preference.
But grid is a mixed bag , drivers taking what they feel is best for them all round.
- Sebastian Vettel: more than just the fastest driver in F1I asked him why he’s so fast and he offered a rather complex answer, which I’ll paraphrase: I am able to think through the race and how I want the car to perform in it with a kind of steely precision.
In 2008 he was said to be very happy with the twitchy rear end STR3. That was why I was puzzled last year by the assertion that he couldn't handle an unstable car. My speculation is that not only was RB8's balance inconstant, it also behaved differently from what the simulator and wind tunnel said and he and the team to a lesser extent were confused. Isn't designing the exhaust flow and predicting its behavior around the coke bottle area known to be very tricky? Mark was never too comfortable with the counter-intuitive technique from the get-go, so he just got on with it. OTOH, Vettel seemed to try to manipulate the car in the ways that were said to be the fastest according to their computer and to make it work rather than to change his drive style.SectorOne wrote:The only problem i have with this is early 2012.raymondu999 wrote:Yep, confirms what we've known so far IMO. Mark is more of a classical-line guy, whereas Seb likes to rotate the car on entry to gain a quicker exit
The car was extremely rear end nervous and Vettel struggled quite a lot whereas Webber seemed to be quite comfortable with the car despite quite sub-par rear downforce-generating.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70462 September, 2008
Q. You openly admit that you have struggled on low speed corners. So was Spa about the setup or simply that you are better on the faster tracks?
S. Bourdais : The setup was the same, but the downforce was different. It was a medium downforce level but it made a difference. If you go on the track with this car and you have slow speed, medium speed and high-speed corners distributed evenly then I am screwed, because you are kind of stuck of the middle.
You have oversteer in the slow speed corners, massive understeer in the high speed corners, and you are half decent in-between. But I don't do well with oversteer at slow speed and I don't do well with understeer at high speed so I get the short end of the stick and get pretty badly kicked, it has always been my problem.
I don't adapt to these cars very well when it is unbalanced like this and I need a car that is balanced in the slow, balanced in the middle and balanced at high speed. Otherwise I don't have confidence and I don't do well.
Usually they tend to be always way to find solutions setup wise but with this car there is a narrower characteristics and whatever you do to the setup it doesn't change anything to this. We have huge migration in the aero balance of this car and, as a consequence, I have been struggling since we introduced the new aero package in Magny-Cours.
For sure it is a much quicker car, there is no doubt about that, but I just don't do well with it. Mark (Webber) and Sebastian (Vettel) are doing much better, while David (Coulthard) is sometimes happy and sometimes unhappy.
Q. Do you think your problem is just because of the characteristics of the STR3 as opposed to F1 cars in general?
SB: Absolutely. The STR2 was not a problem. Like I said, the aero migration which is not three times as big, but which is two and a half times as big as the STR2 makes it really difficult for me. End of story. Again, it is nothing to do with anybody trying to design a car that fits somebody better than somebody else. It is just this is the car that scored the best result in the wind tunnel, so the team produce it and, fair enough, there are some drivers that adapt to it better than I do.
Q. Do you think Sebastian being from a new karting generation helps him?
SB: I've done go karts as well. It is where the comfort zone is. I have a comfort zone that is very narrow and he has got it three times as big, so his expectation of what for him is a good car is just much wider. He deals with problems a lot wider than I do. And that is a quality.
I am not denying my weaknesses, but it has always been my weakness. My strength has never really been to drive an unbalanced car better than anybody else. It has always been to analyse the car, tell me what is wrong with it, what doesn't fit me, fix it and then we go quick. But the problem is we cannot do anything to this car that provides a solution.
http://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/Ca ... s-20080806
"There is no technical solution. It is a characteristic of the car that does not fit with me at all."
"The problem is that, of the four drivers, I am the only one complaining (about this issue), and at Toro Rosso it is not for us to talk about the (car's) development"
Franz Tost confirms the Frenchman struggles in slow corners, especially under braking: ''Then the rear end gets twitchy and he has to wait with steering in, up to the point the car has stabilized. Vettel uses the nervous rear end to steer in.''
The telemetry shows that Bourdais especially loses time to his teammate under braking in the Bus stop chicane. ''Vettel has no problems with a critical car, I do.''