How Would You Change Formula 1?

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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One big thing I would do is to not file content claims on YouTube when fans post race videos. It's one of the most ridiculous things FOM does, and has no impact on their bottom line as most people have no access to older races they might want to see.

Barring that, FOM should release DVD/Blu-ray sets of all previous F1 seasons they hold the rights to. I would buy every single one if it meant getting higher quality video commentated in English. While I have hundreds of races, the quality varies greatly on older races.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

Belatti
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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I dont care if its with turbos, kers, higher displacement or just opening engine rules a bit, but, for the love of pete, I need to see faster F1 cars on straingts. They turn fast enough, but 320kph in strights when they go alone seems poor.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

Belatti
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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And 1:24 laptimes arround Monza are a joke. Decency would be reached spinning at 1:20
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

beelsebob
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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I would tend to agree that F1 needs more power just now. The problem is that many of the epic corners of old are no longer epic, simply because the power has not kept up at the same rate as the downforce has.

natehall
natehall
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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simple.

Driver contracts of no more than 1 year,
Engineer contracts of no more than 1 year.
Ban Gardening leave
Next Year contracts can not be discussed until the halfway point of the season.
(all above to aid information transfer around the paddock)

No ban on any drivetrain/suspension/braking mechanical technology
Banning of electronic aids still
Any rule breaking on the legality of the car, ban them for the season!
Increase the power/downforce ration - more power less downforce.
Remove the limit on number of engines per year, all that did was divert money into aero

beelsebob
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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natehall wrote:Driver contracts of no more than 1 year,
Engineer contracts of no more than 1 year.
Ban Gardening leave
Next Year contracts can not be discussed until the halfway point of the season.
(all above to aid information transfer around the paddock)
Holy hell, way to kill both the sport, and people. The only result from this will be engineers working themselves to death in a bid to keep their job next year, and then making critical mistakes because they're so tired.

natehall
natehall
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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I strongly doubt that would make anybody work harder than they are right now.

From what I know and engineers / mechanics I have know who work in the industry or have worked in the industry, and these are the lower end guys under the technical structure, they work stupid hours to keep there jobs right now, yes the standard employees are on rolling contracts, but what I'm talking about is the James Alison's, Adrian newey level rather than those people.

Another idea I have often thought about, is for you to be able to run two year old machinery in tests, its designs must be freely available in the public domain. This would help both the automotive, aeronautical and other lower teams to become more successfull. It would also be a great boost for education as they would have something very current to study.
Last edited by natehall on 14 Sep 2013, 22:11, edited 1 time in total.

krisfx
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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natehall wrote:I strongly doubt that would make anybody work harder than they are right now.

From what I know and engineers / mechanics I have know who work in the industry or have worked in the industry, and these are the lower end guys under the technical structure, they work stupid hours to keep there jobs right now, yes the standard employees are on rolling contracts, but what I'm talking about is the James Alison's, Adrian newey level rather than those people.

Another idea I have often thought about, is for you to be able to run two year old machinery in tests, its designs must be freely available in the public domain. This would help both the automotive, aeronautical and other lower teams to become more successfull. It would also be a great boost

It would be really good if the top teams were allowed to somehow give/sell/whatever other things their 1-2 year old data to the smaller teams for controlled to bring them within a few seconds of the pace.

The one thing that frustrates me is just how far off the pace the lower teams are and how the FOM/FIA whatever seem to not want to bring the competition level up to make it healthier if that makes sense

natehall
natehall
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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krisfx wrote:
natehall wrote:I strongly doubt that would make anybody work harder than they are right now.

From what I know and engineers / mechanics I have know who work in the industry or have worked in the industry, and these are the lower end guys under the technical structure, they work stupid hours to keep there jobs right now, yes the standard employees are on rolling contracts, but what I'm talking about is the James Alison's, Adrian newey level rather than those people.

Another idea I have often thought about, is for you to be able to run two year old machinery in tests, its designs must be freely available in the public domain. This would help both the automotive, aeronautical and other lower teams to become more successfull. It would also be a great boost

It would be really good if the top teams were allowed to somehow give/sell/whatever other things their 1-2 year old data to the smaller teams for controlled to bring them within a few seconds of the pace.

The one thing that frustrates me is just how far off the pace the lower teams are and how the FOM/FIA whatever seem to not want to bring the competition level up to make it healthier if that makes sense
I totally agree, hence to test with a car you have to put all design drawings for it in the public domain, that means if the team wishes to test with this years car, that is fine but they must release its designs into the public domain, this includes engine maps and any other software they are aloud to use

zeph
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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zeph wrote:I think fuel restrictions would be the single most sensible thing to do in this day and age. Reduce to 150 liters per race in 2016. Reduce to 120 liters by 2018 and down to 90 liters by 2020.

Better yet, restrict the amount of fuel per car for the entire race weekend, I don't have a good read on that so I can't estimate numbers.

Of course, engine restrictions would have to be relaxed so the manufacturers can redevelop engines for the new fuel restrictions. Maybe even allow hybrid tech. Even crazier, allow fuel cells (hydrogen).
Seems like it is already in the pipeline:
http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2013/8/14875.html
Engine - it’s out with 2.4-litre normally-aspirated V8 engines and in with 1.6-litre V6 turbo engines, revving to a maximum of 15,000rpm. The current engines produce more than 750bhp, whilst the 2014 units will produce around 600bhp with additional power coming from Energy Recovery Systems (see below).

Energy Recovery Systems (ERS)
- in 2014, a larger proportion of each car’s power will come from ERS which, together with the engine, make up the powertrain or power unit. As well as generating energy under braking, ERS units will also generate power using waste heat from the engine’s turbocharger. Unlike the current KERS - which give drivers an extra 80bhp for six seconds per lap - the 2014 ERS will give drivers around 160bhp for 33 seconds per lap. To compensate for the extra power being generated under braking by ERS, teams will be allowed to use an electronic rear brake control system.

Fuel - to promote fuel efficiency, fuel will be limited to 100kg per race. At the moment fuel is unlimited, but teams typically use around 160kg per race.
If 160 kg = 180 liters, than 100 kg is prolly less than 120 liters. They're just doing it four years earlier than I anticipated.

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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Genuine question - why does everyone have an obsession with making F1 greener?
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

zeph
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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All environmental concerns aside, I maintain that the fuel cap is prolly the best way to make things interesting.

Reducing max allowed fuel load by 37.5% is likely to have a much bigger impact than any other part of the new regs. If my math is correct, 100 kg should equate to 112.5 liters, down from 180 liters this season.

There is many different ways to skin this particular cat, as you can tell from the interview that follows the regs in the link I posted.

As for the 'green' thing, I think it is necessary that F1 stays relevant, and not be seen as a dinosaur from a different era. Regardless of your socio-political outlook, the amount of oil on our planet is finite, and when it runs out F1 would have to find an alternative source of propulsion anyway. Better start now and change gradually over time, in keeping with humanity's increased awareness on the issue.

Since your moniker is the name of a French tobacco blend, I sense you may have a different view, but burning fuel, just like smoking, is on the way out. It won't happen tomorrow but it will happen. Possibly even in our lifetime.

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Joie de vivre
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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I would ditch almost every single city track and build more track such as Texas.

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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zeph wrote:All environmental concerns aside, I maintain that the fuel cap is prolly the best way to make things interesting.

Reducing max allowed fuel load by 37.5% is likely to have a much bigger impact than any other part of the new regs. If my math is correct, 100 kg should equate to 112.5 liters, down from 180 liters this season.

There is many different ways to skin this particular cat, as you can tell from the interview that follows the regs in the link I posted.

As for the 'green' thing, I think it is necessary that F1 stays relevant, and not be seen as a dinosaur from a different era. Regardless of your socio-political outlook, the amount of oil on our planet is finite, and when it runs out F1 would have to find an alternative source of propulsion anyway. Better start now and change gradually over time, in keeping with humanity's increased awareness on the issue.

Since your moniker is the name of a French tobacco blend, I sense you may have a different view, but burning fuel, just like smoking, is on the way out. It won't happen tomorrow but it will happen. Possibly even in our lifetime.
Instead of 3MPG the cars will get the equivalent of 3.5MPG next season I think it was? This whole turbo experiment is an exercise in stupidity, and no doubt one of the dumbest ventures F1 is undertaking. No team actually wanted this. Mosley was the only one who did. Expensive engines that cost an ungodly amount of money, that there was no need for.

Per the staying relevant thing, I've made mention previously that the longest running joke regarding F1 is the on-going need for "relevance" within the automotive industry. The entire sport has no relevance to it any longer, and has not for decades. Consider this: the three current largest auto manufacturers have no involvement with F1 any longer. That would be Toyota, GM, and VW. Toyota did, and it turned into a gigantic waste of capital for something that had no relevance to their operations. GM will never get involved in F1. VW came out an openly said that F1 has zero relevance to what they do, and even mentioned the lack of engine development as being a key reason for why they will never be involved with F1.

But one thing I've noticed over time is that so long as it keeps being told to the fans that there is a need for road relevance, they will in turn begin to parrot the whole notion of "road relevance". This is naturally done while ignoring that a F1 car has more relevance to the aerospace industry as presently constituted.

The world's oil supply will not be running out any time soon. The FUD regarding oil supply began back in the 1970s/1980s if I recall correctly, and persists to this day everywhere. A pity the media often ignores all the findings regarding new oil reserves...but now, that wouldn't really fit the agenda of attracting attention with bad news? I consume more fuel in a single year than a single F1 car does across an entire season. The attention is in the wrong place. It's not F1's job to be green. Leave it for the companies that actually produce cars that are used daily as opposed to 20 weekends a year. If you want companies pursuing racing for finding alternative technologies to be perhaps used in road cars one day, there's just the thing for that - prototype racing.

Make no mistake, F1 is entertainment primarily, everything else is secondary. If it had anything to do with promoting advances in automotive technology, the rules would not have become so narrow as to stifle any, and all meaningful creativity. Creativity is focused on aerodynamic tricks primarily, all of which have zero road relevance. If F1 had any real interest in being relevant, they wouldn't be asking for cheap tires that are focused on producing a spectacle. Nor would they use gimmicks such as DRS that are the antithesis of racing. Remember it's called "racing", not "passing".
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

zeph
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Re: How Would You Change Formula 1?

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That is a lengthy post, so let me break it down:
GitanesBlondes wrote: Instead of 3MPG the cars will get the equivalent of 3.5MPG next season I think it was?
I don't know where that came from. I just know that the F1 site states a reduction from 160kg per race to 100kg per race. That is a 37.5% reduction, and no matter how you slice it, that is HUGE.
This whole turbo experiment is an exercise in stupidity, and no doubt one of the dumbest ventures F1 is undertaking. No team actually wanted this. Mosley was the only one who did. Expensive engines that cost an ungodly amount of money, that there was no need for.
Of course it is cheaper to maintain engine freeze. It takes one variable out of the equation, and thus makes designing everything else cheaper, too. But sometimes change is necessary. For the longest time, the American auto-industry believed that "there is no substitute for cubic inches", and rattled on with 6 liter V8's and a carburetor. In my view, we should have never abandoned turbo's in the 1980's.
Per the staying relevant thing, I've made mention previously that the longest running joke regarding F1 is the on-going need for "relevance" within the automotive industry. The entire sport has no relevance to it any longer, and has not for decades.
Where did I say relevant to the auto industry? Relevant to the changing human perception of reality. I thought that was pretty clear in my previous post.
The world's oil supply will not be running out any time soon. The FUD regarding oil supply began back in the 1970s/1980s if I recall correctly, and persists to this day everywhere. A pity the media often ignores all the findings regarding new oil reserves...but now, that wouldn't really fit the agenda of attracting attention with bad news?
I know. The world's coal supply is not running out anytime soon, either. But they ARE finite, and most of humanity is beginning to realize that there must be better ways of powering mobility. The internal combustion engine is horribly inefficient, less than 20% of the energy generated is used for propulsion, the rest is wasted residual heat. And that is with turbos, atmospheric engines are even less efficient. So in that sense, the move to turbo engines with ERS is really a move towards increased efficiency. What's wrong with that?
I consume more fuel in a single year than a single F1 car does across an entire season.
Dude, what do you drive?!? We drive 15,000 miles per year, and even our gas-guzzling SUV gets 15 mpg (a little more actually, but rounding down for easier calc). That is a 1000 gallons per year, then, or about 3790 liters. An F1 car does 180 liters in a race, and that is NOT accounting for three practices, three Q sessions and any pre-season testing. 300km/180l = 1.66666, or roughly 1mpg. That is becoming increasingly indefensible in this day and age.
The attention is in the wrong place. It's not F1's job to be green. Leave it for the companies that actually produce cars that are used daily as opposed to 20 weekends a year. If you want companies pursuing racing for finding alternative technologies to be perhaps used in road cars one day, there's just the thing for that - prototype racing.
I can actually agree with this. It is not F1's job to be green. It is about increasing efficiency. On a different note, perception IS reality. To be perceived as cutting edge, F1 needs to change along with times.
Make no mistake, F1 is entertainment primarily, everything else is secondary.
Absolutely. And wouldn't it be more entertaining if the current status quo was upended and RBR/Vettel does not win everything? Hopefully, a rule change will do just that.
If it had anything to do with promoting advances in automotive technology, the rules would not have become so narrow as to stifle any, and all meaningful creativity. Creativity is focused on aerodynamic tricks primarily, all of which have zero road relevance. If F1 had any real interest in being relevant, they wouldn't be asking for cheap tires that are focused on producing a spectacle. Nor would they use gimmicks such as DRS that are the antithesis of racing. Remember it's called "racing", not "passing".
Again, I can sort of agree with all of this, except that the tightening of rules actually induces creativity. But as far as F1's irrelevance to real-world driving, we're on the same page. But I do think that things like aerodynamics increase our understanding of the phenomenon, which is good for all sort of things. And the focus on aero is a direct result of the engine freeze, methinks. Since no gains are to be had there, they are gonna look for it elsewhere.

[edit: typo]