SectorOne wrote:Could you use one gear as fuel saving gear?
Like if you hit top speed in 7th, flick in 8th and it stays at top speed but rpm drops.
Or maybe that makes no difference?
The car would slow down in 8th if you try that.
Top speed occurs when the rear axle torque and the aero drag are equal and opposite. If you gear 7th to reach top speed, then 8th a little longer what will happen is when you select 7th, the axle torque will drop (due to the higher gear ratio) but the aero drag will remain the same so there will be a net force slowing the car down.
You will reach a new "top speed" somewhere below the previous one.
notApineapple wrote:
The car would slow down in 8th if you try that.
Top speed occurs when the rear axle torque and the aero drag are equal and opposite. If you gear 7th to reach top speed, then 8th a little longer what will happen is when you select 7th, the axle torque will drop (due to the higher gear ratio) but the aero drag will remain the same so there will be a net force slowing the car down.
You will reach a new "top speed" somewhere below the previous one.
This is not necessarily correct.
1. The engine could have a flat max power output above 10'500 rpm, as the permitted fuel mass flow is at 100kg/h above 10'500 rpm
2. This means that the charge air temp will increase, as you need to increase carge air pressure to maintain flat power curve with lower revs, but you are at the top speed, so you have the best cooling anyway
Last edited by Abarth on 18 Sep 2013, 22:15, edited 1 time in total.
Who is Rob White to know anything about the new powerplants when we have heard the truth here for some time?
Anyways AMuS is just another company involved in selling mags and advertising space..so i bet the printed content has been filtered by someone without having a clue...
You can save fuel in eight gear in that case. All you do is use KERS right?
I noticed porche has an interesting representation of the torque their new hybrid supercar produces.
It has an equivalent high torque in the the higher gears when electric drive is switched on.
About the way the MGUK delivery will be controlled during the lap, even if technically it will be done by the SECU based on throttle application, in reality I wouldn't be surprised if teams found a way to still mimic the same behavior as now with KERS having the driver deciding exactly where it's delivered still via a separate control.
For instance, we know that the driver has plenty of knobs/switches on the wheel to adjust functional parameters, and also button/levers that allow to momentarily override the base selection (for example to use a different map/differential setting for a specific corner only).
Same method could be used for MGUK, just have a knob that sets the max power level it can produce and a button that momentarily overrides that selection as long as pressed.
That way if the team determines via simulations that the best strategy with the available energy is (random simplified example to make the point) to have 30kW continuous for the whole full throttle time raised to 120 kW on selected areas out of certain corners only and for a given amount of time, the driver will just set the knob to 30kW so that when SECU, as programmed, activates the MGUK based on throttle position, it can only deliver 30kW; then in the selected "boost areas" the driver will just have to press the overriding button thus momentarily setting the max to the full 120kW and it's job done.
Same logic if he needs extra boost in "unconventional" parts of lap to defend and/or try an overtake.
Technically it's still the SECU that decides when to deliver the boost based on throttle application only, but in practice the system works just like now the KERS does, which is the optimal, and most versatile, usage for circuit racing.
That is only an example then, other solutions could be found to achieve same result, picking one or another will depend by details (unavailable to us yet, if ever) of rules, SECU programming etc.
At the end of the day the only thing teams are interested in is how to exploit the available energy for best laptime (which in turn is also what minimizes fuel consumption as the more gain comes from electric energy the more you can detune the ICE to achieve same laptime consuming less), if the optimal strategy for usage of the limited energy available is that of delivering it at full power in certain areas of lap only and (almost) nothing in others, they will find a way to achieve it, independently by intention of rules.
This is circuit racing we are talking about, whatever strategy is best for that has nothing to do with any "dual torque" mode or whatever pompous name is given to an hybrid strategy meant to maximize efficiency on road driving at low, more often than not constant, speed and with smooth accelerations/braking.
Sorry Reca, you said it yourself.
The teams will only be able to program the power unit control solely dependent on what the regulations allow them to do.
F1 is a spec formula and is not open to innovation.
The regulations will structure things so that making enough fuel available at the race end will be the main motivator.
Next year we will see just how badly the teams have shot themselves in the foot through their unstructured demands.
All the 'energy conserving' technology will be seen as an illusion for marketing and the Formula will look further emaciated.
xpensive wrote:Top speed is where air- and rolling resistance balances power, that's really all there is to it, you never get something for nothing.
Right now the top speed is often defined by rpm limiter settings.
xpensive wrote:But the cubic relation between Power and Speed means that an additional 40 Hp will only take you to 335 km/h.
Yeah, but you'd get to 330 in less time.
to run out of revs by using a deliberate short gearing is a engineering tradeoff - and it is no contradiction to X s statement as in fact reaching the limiter does indicate no more power available ...
it is a similar thing with downforce-you might add downforce and reach lower terminal speed on a straight but doing so you have better traction and exit corner speed and better braking capability so the time spend on that piece of track might be well shorter even though the topspeed is lower . a Tradeoff.
xpensive wrote:Top speed is where air- and rolling resistance balances power, that's really all there is to it, you never get something for nothing.
Right now the top speed is often defined by rpm limiter settings.
xpensive wrote:But the cubic relation between Power and Speed means that an additional 40 Hp will only take you to 335 km/h.
Yeah, but you'd get to 330 in less time.
The key part here being right now. These days will be over soon.
i'm more excited about the fact that they'll be forced to pick 8 gears that they'll have to live with for the whole year more than anything else. It'll be very rare that cars run on to the limiter as the car's will have to be able to do Monza and monaco with the same gear ratios. Should make next year very interesting.
I don´t see the reason for your excitement.You got more gears mandatory and they have to cover the whole range Monaco to Monza .Add to this a powertrain with a very flat Torque curve and the whole challenge is ?
You have to play it save for the overall gearing in Monza determining your trap speed capability there and you need a first gear capable of negotiating the very slow stuff of monaco (Loews) and a standing start /pitlane getaway with 8 gears to spread the range ....Nothing fancy there .Maybe it does make sense to tweak a gear for certain corners in the season but
I doubt this really is a differentiator.
Having said this I think it´s the other way round:the powertrain is so flexible gearing is a non issue and the spread available will allow the teams to short shift and cruise at low revs at every possible opportunity(still you need the power to overcome your drag factors..).
