Tire Heat

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: Tire Heat

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I think the fact that we are seeing these also on the top cars pretty much confirms that the images are sufficiently doctored to the point of them being absolutely useless for drawing any conclusions.

If they really were representative of the tyre temperatures, you would have heard a lot of comments (and opposition) from the teams. But they have popped up at Monza without a single argument. That says it all for me.

All they are showing are some pretty pictures.
Not the engineer at Force India

Blanchimont
Blanchimont
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Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:47

Re: Tire Heat

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But aren't all the teams and Pirelli already exchanging quite a lot of information regarding the tyres?
If tyre temp is part of that exchange, it wouldn't matter to show these data via a thermal camera.
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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: Tire Heat

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Yes but the tyre temps are different for different cars and this a large reason why there is a difference of performance for the different teams.

The tyre temp depends a lot on the suspension. Add to that the fact that the degradation is heavily dependant on the thermal history. So with a good thermal image of a leading car you will learn a lot about their suspension and how it keeps the temperatures in the corfect range (and also what that range is). It will basically give you a good idea of the suspension design philosophy which is obviously not data you want out in the public.

I'd also expect that the top teams understand better than Pirelli how to treat the tyres in terms of load, geometry and temperature to get the maximum performance and degradation. The temperature management is a large part of that and I just can't fathom how any team would be willing to give this information out.
Not the engineer at Force India

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F1T
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What to learn from a temperature camera?

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What to learn from a temperature camera? - Development blog

Since the introduction of Formula One's new thermal camera images, there has been talk about the relevancy of the images, leaving apart the obvious coolness that is associated with it. It is for sure that such imaging will help people understand the complex nature of Formula One, and increase the technical interest in the sport.

Before going into what we've been seeing, one needs to take into account that the images are not meant to give away technical details that other teams could use. Instead, their calibration is not made public, making it unclear when an area is considered hot enough by the camera to be visualised as blue, purple, red, yellow or white. It is even possible that this calibration is not linear either, making it even less useful from a technical perspective. Nonetheless, the new images are worth a look, as they do certainly show a few things that were known before, but not actually visible.

At the Italian Grand Prix in Monza, FOM repeatedly showed images of the front wheels on Paul Di Resta's car. There it was clear that the sidewalls are considerably cooler than the thread, while the car's negative camber setting - a common feature in racecar setup - made sure the inside of the front tyres take the main load when the car is running in a straight line. When cornering, it is obvious how this camber setting works, as the roll of the car offsets this camber on the the outer front tyre - the one that takes the biggest load - making its thread heat up evenly across the entire width.

Now at the Singapore Grand Prix, Felipe Massa's Ferrari featured a rearward looking camera, showing how the rear tyres heat up and cool down during the course of a lap. That image showed that the rear tyres are heating up mostly during acceleration, and to a little less extent under braking. This is of course easily explained by the weight transfer of the car, as under braking, the weight shifts forward, hence also why the brake balance is set up so that more brake pressure is applied to the front wheels.

In addition, it's also clear that there is less or no camber on the rear wheels, as they have to work at their best on a straight line as well. Any minor camber angle however is easily offset by the downforce on the rear wheels, pushing the entire thread onto the tarmac under acceleration.

One final, and perhaps the most interesting observation we can make, is how the inner wall of the rear tyre is heating up. It is clear that this is mostly due to the Coanda exhausts that direct the hot stream of exhaust gases down onto the car's floor, passing alongside the tyre. This considerably heats up the rear tyres and has been a particular problem for some teams to keep under control. Mercedes AMG for instance reverted to their traditional exhaust during 2012 after finding out that their tried Coanda exhaust layout worsened rear tyre wear.

In the below clip, you will also clearly see how the tyre wall is hotter when the car is accelerating hard - due to the high RPM of the engine and hence the more powerful exhaust stream. Also look at the behaviour under braking, where downshifts are followed by a short increase in rear tyre wall temperature, again due to the increase of engine revolutions. All this of course is influenced by engine mappings, but as most teams now have a good understanding of the tyres, it's unlikely anyone is using less afterburn than possible to preserve the tyres.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... wBulxRmbYY[/youtube]

Image

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Tire Heat

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Before going into what we've been seeing, one needs to take into account that the images are not meant to give away technical details that other teams could use. Instead, their calibration is not made public, making it unclear when an area is considered hot enough by the camera to be visualised as blue, purple, red, yellow or white. It is even possible that this calibration is not linear either, making it even less useful from a technical perspective. Nonetheless, the new images are worth a look, as they do certainly show a few things that were known before, but not actually visible.

This was why I put the video up in the first place.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

aussiegman
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Re: Tire Heat

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Watching Singapore, did anyone notice that eh radiator and even the reflected heat off the chassis was picked up by the IR camera. There was also noticable heat from the wheel rim.

So either they changed the settings of the camera , perhaps due to the higher ambient heat in Singapore forced them to or they simply changed it as a matter of course.
Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the back, or an Idiot from any direction

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db__
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006, 12:30

Re: Tire Heat

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There has been a lot of talk about calibration and keeping tyre related information from other teams but surely if a team wanted to use information about other teams from the thermal images it would be a fairly trivial matter to mount either their own cameras on their cars or use trackside thermal cameras to see how other cars were performing. It's not as if the technology is particularly new.

Indeed this imagery may be new to us but I'd be very surprised if the teams didn't already have their own version of it. Some like this perhaps... http://grandprix247.com/2013/07/24/merc ... real-time/

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Tire Heat

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Click photo for video
Image
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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Kiril Varbanov
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 15:00
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia

Re: Tire Heat

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Got a reply from representative at FOM:
Dear Kiril,

In basic terms, the brighter the colour, the higher the temperature.

We are not in a position to give any specific data, but the temperatures really do change that quickly and frequently, which is exactly what the thermal images are designed to highlight.
I'll take that with a grain of salt ... The color change could mean tolerance between 110 and 112 degrees, for example ...

stez90
stez90
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Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 23:31

Re: Tire Heat

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I don't think so. Check some video of race car with tire surface temperature monitored. You can see very large temperature gradients in a matter of seconds, not 2 or 3°C but rather 10-30°C....

For example look at the front left temperature at the first right-hand turn..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpQFKD8h7z0[/youtube]

This is of a motorbike instead.. Left and right side of the same tire (rear one):