Red Bull RB9 Renault

[langwadt]

It's kind of a traction control if you think about it, just that it's not a feedback system, maybe vettel manually cuts out the cylinders some how which limits his torque to the wheels, but has that high speed air to blow the rear. Probably just squeezes a paddle, cuts out 4 cylinders, releases paddle to bring back 8 cylinders when car is up to speed and about to leave the corner.

As for the paddles, the answer is 'no'. Tech regulations state: "5.5.1 The only means by which the driver may control the engine torque is via a single chassis mounted foot (accelerator) pedal."

Imagine if you will: When the throttle is pressed 50% of its travel (mid-corner for example) it opens up 4 of the cylinders, at 75% (corner exit/traction zones) 6 come in and at full throttle on straights the full 8 fire up. Technically it would be fully driver operated and be pretty intuitive allowing the drivers to just have at it rather than second guessing the ignition cycle of the engine! They would need to retard the ignition a bit with a trick engine map but if they make it fire when no cylinders were on back in 2011 I'm sure they can reverse the trick.

I'm also not an engineer but i think that sequencial fire up of the cilinders is useless because of Article 5.5.5 "At any given engine speed the driver torque demand map must be monotonically increasing for an increase in accelerator pedal position." And forbidden by Article 5.6.6 "Except when anti-stall or idle speed control are active, ignition base offsets may only be applied above 80% throttle and 15,000rpm and for the sole purpose of reducing cylinder pressure for reliability."

I'd takes that as meaning you cannot retard ignition to fire out of the exhaust, I nut sure it means you cannot skip ignitions as long as you still produce torque per the map.

if they want to load the engine effectively producing less torque and more exhaust, I don't see why they couldn't use something similar to the magic pedal Mclaren had in 98, but it would be easy to see if the rear brakes were glowing
on the exit of corners

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Red Bull Traction Secret Revealed?

There's lots more to the article, but here's a clip of the traction part. Buy it and check it out, very good article with lots of insight from Newey!


via Racecar Engineering

[spiritone]

This thread has gotten most interesting. We have gone from black staggered lines on the road to finally having a rational discussion on what really might be going on with red bull. How they are doing it has ensnared just about every website around. Wished we had this during the 2 wk shutdown.

[ecapox]

Very very interesting.

[Spacepace]

Is this implying that when they press the Kers button it is actually working as traction control. Because I watched Vettel's onboard of his pole lap in Montreal and he does not use Kers right out the hairpin not until he reaches the kink. Another thing I was at the end of that hairpin in the grandstands. During the wet qualy the Red Bull definitely, definitely had better traction then any other car out of the hairpin. Every other cars was twitching except for the Red Bull.

[stefan_]

Korea 2013 - Thursday (03.10.2013)

[raymondu999]

[Juzh]

Red Bull Traction Secret Revealed?

There's lots more to the article, but here's a clip of the traction part. Buy it and check it out, very good article with lots of insight from Newey!

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5975/50np.jpg
via Racecar Engineering

This article is a load of bollocks if you ask me, and is only there to fill space or to produce some kind of sensationalism for the masses out there who know little about actual technical nature of F1.. Much like gary anderson's stuff who, for example, claimed after abu dhabi last year (when vettel set fastest lap on lower DF trim) RB should change their philosophy about their set-ups, while completely ignoring the fact RB was faster than ferrari and lotus in the first place and fresh options on vettel's car.

My opinion on the points made in this article:
1. 50% true. They are slowest in speed traps only when speed trap is positioned after they hit their rev limiter. When it's not they are always near the top.
2. true
3. This pretty much confirms my theory of RBs being fastest cars at least up to 250 clicks, maybe more. Vettel had 10 kph over raikkonen up to ~250 in germany on the back "straight" when rai was hunting him down.
4. He forgets to mention short gears, which are a huge contributing factor, along with obviously better diffuser allowing them to run less wing.
5. yes
6. Non-sense. They DO have the best downforce/drag ratio. Monza and Spa in particular prove this (RBs fastest in all sectors despite next to zero wing)
7. yes
8. Top end speed has very little to do with actual DF (relative for the track). Red bulls are on the limiter for the longest time in quali because they are confident they will be running in free air where you will never reach top speed. In races their top speed is equal or better than most teams.
9. Both
10. true
11. wrong, you just don't hear it on the radio all the time because they get less attention. Rai in monza for example.
12. tight packaging? compromising cooling for aero performance?
13. not a single evidence
14. this entire point is utter non-sense. Where else are you going to use it other than corner exits leading onto straight? No point in using it to much on the drs straights where they are in the limiter for seconds anyway. Moot point.
15. it is most certainly not a clue. As it has been established a million times already.

All else mentioned in the rest of the article is purely speculation with zero (!) factual evidence.

That's my thinking anyway.

[ringo]

One thing I would diasagree with the article is that it assumes redbull doesn't have superior aero because of it's lower topspeed. That is a very bold assumption.
The car can still have better downforce to drag ratio and still be slower down the straights. It just means that the car has an even greater downfroce gain and a comparatively smaller drag gain, than if another car were to increae it's downforce.

Looking at how the car brakes and carves through medium and high speed turns, this car is definitely aerodynamically superior. Watch any race with Mark Webber in the midpack, even when he's on equal tyres, you will see that the car is more planted, enters and leaves at higher speeds.

[.poz]

those two appendix... it's just for better internal flux ? But why build them in some kind of metal when you can use light carbon fiber or other composite ? Maybe those are in metal to dissipate the heat generated by the resistor used to create the load on the kers motor to control traction.

[gray41]

Just to help internal aero.

[tony77g]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5521387/rb9.png

those two appendix... it's just for better internal flux ? But why build them in some kind of metal when you can use light carbon fiber or other composite ? Maybe those are in metal to dissipate the heat generated by the resistor used to create the load on the kers motor to control traction.

Look here: http://www.f1sport.it/2013/05/22/f1-red ... a-interna/
I tried to explain some time ago

[notApineapple]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5521387/rb9.png

those two appendix... it's just for better internal flux ? But why build them in some kind of metal when you can use light carbon fiber or other composite ? Maybe those are in metal to dissipate the heat generated by the resistor used to create the load on the kers motor to control traction.

It probably is carbon but with a reflective coating

[H2H]

A fine read by Rodi Basso, ex-performance engineer for RBR:

Of course some aspects are well know but I enjoyed the part about the TCS on bikes. However point 6 underlines something which is certainly one aspect of the performance of the recent RBx cars on twisty and bumpy circuits:

6. Nella zona citata nel punto precedente, la vettura è ai massimi angoli volante e di rollio. Avendo avuto l’onore di lavorare per Newey, so quanto stressi l’analisi al CFD, in galleria e nei test dell’aerodinamica della vettura, in quelle condizioni (steer and roll sensitivity). Ricordo di complicatissimi “aggeggi” per mettere la macchina in certe condizioni e misurarne il campo aerodinamico.

Red Bull Racing has certainly done a massive amount of work on the aero in various street and roll states and in the proper simulation of them.

[Owen.C93]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5521387/rb9.png
Maybe those are in metal to dissipate the heat generated by the resistor used to create the load on the kers motor to control traction.

f'kin LOL.

But seriously they've ran it for a while, just helps with their cooling exits which are low around the gearbox and above the crash structure.