RB Traction Control yin yang

[Tim.Wright]

User comment on JAonF1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJyrz8m84cU

check out sounds as of 3:29. Caterham with “the” SV sound…
Then again at 6:12: first it’s SV, then Webber, then a Williams. Even the Williams has “the” sound imho.

I heard the same at Monza with Red Bull, Williams and Caterham. I think its pretty clear now that this sound is in no way some Red Bull specific trick.

[shelly]

As I wrote at the beginning of the thread I think the advantage was around 1s and was given mainly by ebd and cylinder cutting. About KERS trick: which are the rule limits to hard-wired analog logic, as opposed to ecu digital logic?
Would it be possible for redbull to have an electrical circuit whose properties (reactance, impedance or whatever, I am ignorant about this) are such as to dissipate the power from the engine when the variation in the unit time of the wheel speed (i.e frequency of the AC) change abrubtly - as in wheelspin? Is that possible- is that policed?

[hollus]

Possible most certainly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_computer
Done, who knows!
Policed, I never heard of it!

[hollus]

Talking of analog computers... in this case mechanical. What about Vettel's left foot?
The evidence doesn't quite add up perfectly, but in the yin yang thread it is OK to float ideas.
The best way to maximize exhaust flow would of course be to floor the right foot. Vettel, while not flooring it, is indeed accelerating impressively early in very slow corners (and mostly only out of very slow corners), even a bit before his apex. What if he is controlling traction not by modulating the throttle, but by letting the throttle down much more than one would sanely do and modulating the brakes? I don't mean the 10-15% braking, Schumi style, to control the attitude of the car, but more like 50-80% braking pressure to control acceleration. In very slow corners, with negligible aero load in the front axle and a large front brake bias, this might be sensitive enough to be controlled, and having the brakes working would also be the most natural way to get the KERS and those supercaps to "enahance" traction.
This is something that FIA graphics with its "on-off" brake sign would not show (in some chicanes Vettles brakes briefly go "full on", suggesting they must have been close to it before. Also, this is something that very experienced Webber would have trouble adapting to, with 20 years of his butt telling his brain no to floor that throttle; while videogame generation Vettel probably is more used to let his brain have the last say.

[raymondu999]

Would you not rape your engine to pieces while doing that? I'd think the clutch would be a more possible option.

[timbo]

What if he is controlling traction not by modulating the throttle, but by letting the throttle down much more than one would sanely do and modulating the brakes?

You should see overlap on the onboards.

I don't mean the 10-15% braking, Schumi style, to control the attitude of the car, but more like 50-80% braking pressure to control acceleration. In very slow corners, with negligible aero load

He'd lock up=)

This is something that FIA graphics with its "on-off" brake sign would not show (in some chicanes Vettles brakes briefly go "full on", suggesting they must have been close to it before.

A logical error? If graph is only on/off then there's nothing that suggests the degree of the brake application.

Also, this is something that very experienced Webber would have trouble adapting to, with 20 years of his butt telling his brain no to floor that throttle; while videogame generation Vettel probably is more used to let his brain have the last say.

I never heard Vettel was a fan of videogames. What I heard is that he (like most other great drivers: Alonso, Hamilton etc...) drove his butt off in karts.

[hollus]

The FIA "Brake" signal in the onboards behaves (to us) as an on-off light. But we have been discussing this before, and likely it doesn't mean that then the symbol is off there is no brake pressure applied, it means that it only goes on at a certain threshold of brake pressure, that the FIA or the teams can decide, and that apparently is set relatively high. A bit like the black/blue threshold in the thermal images they have started to release.

Good point with the lock-up of the unloaded front tires. Rear bias, then? Counter-intuitive, but exhaust flow to the diffuser trumps everything else. This would indeed overwork engine, brakes and what not, but for 1-2 seconds a lap, only at the exit of very slow corners...

Then again, most likely this is just a crazy idea that wouldn't work.

But come to think of it, if it were to work, it would work in starts also, another part where Vettel has outperformed Webber all year long, and where I have noticed that Vettel, often losing a bit right off the line, normally regains the relative speed at some point around 100Km/h.

[FW17]

However the latest issue of Racecar Engineering raises an alternative, legal and highly innovative solution for the RB9′s mid corner performance, which could also explain many of Red Bull’s reliability issues.
It is theoretically easy to modulate the output torque and charging input torque to an electric motor/generator using capacitors, batteries, inductors and a feedback signal. Torque changes are instant and control is easy and legal.

If torque were to be modulated in response to the normal force of the tires against the track (in response to shock pressure for example) significant unused traction potential could be recovered during high pressure phases (upside of bumps) and initiation of full wheel spin during low pressure phases (downside of bumps) could be delayed. Yielding better turn exit acceleration, higher cornering speeds and stability. Especially on bumpy tracks like Singapore.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... -revealed/

[Juzh]

So hamilton in today's press conference indirectly accused red bull of running traction control, stating:

"The last time I could put down the pedal that quick was in 2007 when we had traction control."

Article is on skyF1. I'll link video of full press conference when it becomes available.

[SectorOne]

Ok so the non-believers, listen to this,

"We are pretty proud of the system we have because other people will never figure out how we have done it," he said. "Constantly we try to improve the car, that is part of the homework we try to do.

He added: "We were playing around quite a lot in practice [in Singapore] and the first time it worked was in the race. I'm quite confident because other people will never figure out how we do it."

By yours truly, Sebastian Vettel.

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... MP=OTC-RSS

And btw to Juzh comment above, geez, you sound like a newspaper, if that was what he said he´s not indirectly accusing anyone of traction control. Just like Minardi never accused Red bull of having traction control.

Edit:

A rumor, every stone is turned at Red Bull.

Meanwhile, according to Bild newspaper, Red Bull’s determination to dominate Formula 1 can be seen in the team’s new €100,000 jack.

The jack is reportedly designed to automatically lower the car once it detects that all four wheels have been secured during a pitstop.

Bild said Red Bull’s powerful rivals including Ferrari and Mercedes are now working on similar systems.

Force India team manager Andy Stevenson is quoted as arguing the innovation should be banned.

“If no one has it, everyone’s pitstop will be half a second slower. So who cares?” he said. (GMM)

[iotar__]

Of course no one else will be able to figure it out when even his team-mate Webber can't, how unfortunate .

[oT v1]

Smoke and mirrors from Seb for some fun?

[notApineapple]

Ok so the non-believers, listen to this,

"We are pretty proud of the system we have because other people will never figure out how we have done it," he said. "Constantly we try to improve the car, that is part of the homework we try to do.

He added: "We were playing around quite a lot in practice [in Singapore] and the first time it worked was in the race. I'm quite confident because other people will never figure out how we do it."

By yours truly, Sebastian Vettel.

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... MP=OTC-RSS

And btw to Juzh comment above, geez, you sound like a newspaper, if that was what he said he´s not indirectly accusing anyone of traction control. Just like Minardi never accused Red bull of having traction control.

Mate, if you belive that you've got issues. It was made as a joke. Mark Webber made a similar joke a few years ago about a big orange lever they had in their car which changed the ride height after qualifying.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Smoke and mirrors from Seb for some fun?

English language has a great phrase for that: Tongue-in-cheek.

[917]

The source is http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 15032.html. It was a joke.